Redfish Help

mjkirshner

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I have my first saltwater guide trip scheduled for next week, and it looks as if we will be fishing the Titusville/Mosquito Lagoon area, so I figure that redfish may be on the radar. The guide tells me that the fishing has been good but water has been cloudy, and they have been using dark "shrimpy" or baitfish patterns. I want to tie a few flies myself to try, but I have never caught redfish, so if anyone with experience can recommend one or two patterns that work, I would appreciate the advice.
 

Matt4.0

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Can't comment to fly recommendations, but if you aren't experienced casting a heavier-weight rod you might see about getting a lesson or practicing before you go. I did my first saltwater trip this summer, and while I would call myself a serviceable caster on trout streams, I struggled with the guide's fast action 8-wt. The distances you need and how fast you need to get it there are a different animal than typical rivers (depending on where you're from).

---------- Post added at 08:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 AM ----------

Just saw in your profile you're from Florida, so you may be more experienced in this style than me!
 

karstopo

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YouTube

Scott Null, a Galveston area fly guide, tying a Galveston Bay area favorite redfish pattern, Redfish Crack. Our water is often cloudy and these work well in those conditions.

I do a little different version often with Eyelash yarn for the collar instead of EP. I've used craft fur and Steve Farrar Blend for the tails. I like mine to be on Gamakatsu Size 2 SC-15 hooks or on Mustad Big Game Light size 2 or 4. The Gamakatsu hooks are small and light and I usually use craft fur tails on them in Olive or Tan and then bar with a marker. The Mustad hooks are bigger, longer and heavier. I like Steve Farrar blend in Redfish color for the tails.

I weight mine with mini to medium lead or Brass Dumbbells. You can weed guard as needed.

---------- Post added at 10:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 AM ----------



An olive tailed version with the eyelash yarn. I typically try to put these in the path of a moving fish and give the fly a little bump when the fish gets in range. The eyelash yarn has a lot of flash and cuts through the murk pretty well. Hobby Lobby sells or at least did sell this eyelash yarn, I haven't bought any in a long time. One bundle is like $7 and will last my lifetime and then some.

---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 AM ----------



The 2 on the left are sort of a standard tan color pattern. I usually bar the tail with a darker marker.
 

mjkirshner

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Can't comment to fly recommendations, but if you aren't experienced casting a heavier-weight rod you might see about getting a lesson or practicing before you go. I did my first saltwater trip this summer, and while I would call myself a serviceable caster on trout streams, I struggled with the guide's fast action 8-wt. The distances you need and how fast you need to get it there are a different animal than typical rivers (depending on where you're from).

---------- Post added at 08:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 AM ----------

Just saw in your profile you're from Florida, so you may be more experienced in this style than me!
Sorry. I did not make myself clear. I live in South Florida and regularly fish 8 and 9 wt rods in saltwater. This will just be my first time fishing that far north (in Florida) and first time with a saltwater guide. I have been wanting to get up to Mosquito Lagoon for a while, and figured that hiring a guide for the first time in an unfamiliar area made sense.

---------- Post added at 01:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:03 PM ----------

Scott Null, a Galveston area fly guide, tying a Galveston Bay area favorite redfish pattern, Redfish Crack. Our water is often cloudy and these work well in those conditions.

I do a little different version often with Eyelash yarn for the collar instead of EP. I've used craft fur and Steve Farrar Blend for the tails. I like mine to be on Gamakatsu Size 2 SC-15 hooks or on Mustad Big Game Light size 2 or 4. The Gamakatsu hooks are small and light and I usually use craft fur tails on them in Olive or Tan and then bar with a marker. The Mustad hooks are bigger, longer and heavier. I like Steve Farrar blend in Redfish color for the tails.

I weight mine with mini to medium lead or Brass Dumbbells. You can weed guard as needed.

An olive tailed version with the eyelash yarn. I typically try to put these in the path of a moving fish and give the fly a little bump when the fish gets in range. The eyelash yarn has a lot of flash and cuts through the murk pretty well. Hobby Lobby sells or at least did sell this eyelash yarn, I haven't bought any in a long time. One bundle is like $7 and will last my lifetime and then
some.

The 2 on the left are sort of a standard tan color pattern. I usually bar the tail with a darker marker.
Thanks! I've got the craft fur and some copper polar chenille that might make a good substitute for the eyelash yarn. I will give it a try.
 

pnc

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Best I've found for getting Mr. Reds attention. Is very similar to pics posted by, Karstopo. Tail is gold mylar, 30 to 60 strands. Palmering chenille to eye. I use both orange & rootbeer with gold tail. Darker version is black buctail w/blk flash for tail. Or black marabu w/2 strands of red flash. Black & purple palmering chenille (wound at same time) to eye.
If water is muddy. A seaducer or something to move water. Darker the better.

........ pc
 

mjkirshner

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Wondering if this might work.


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---------- Post added at 10:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 PM ----------

The guide said baitfish patterns 2.5 to 3" so maybe this?



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bigjim5589

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I think that Redfish are a lot like bass when it comes to what they'll take, which is most anything if you can get it in front of them without spooking them.

From conversations & forum posts, there seems to be a few folks who want to treat them like freshwater trout, like they're finicky about the flies they'll eat. I see recommendations all the time on a local forum for specific patterns, some of the local captains have developed. No doubt they'll work, but certainly not the only flies that will. I also respect the loyalty of locals to help support locals too, and such flies are not cheap to buy.

I've been told many times over the years how smart trout & bass can be, and have yet to have that prove true. Same with these Redfish.

IMO, size & a decent profile with some movement built into the fly is all that's important. I like playing with colors, but that's more for our satisfaction than the fish. There's a time & place for both light & dark colors.

The rest is getting the fly where it needs to be to get a positive response.

I generally have been tying flies for Reds in olive, rootbeer, tan, and the black or purple combinations. Some I've had success with have rabbit strips in them, with silicone legs. Actually, the same flies have worked well for bass. :)
 

fq13

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Wondering if this might work.


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---------- Post added at 10:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 PM ----------

The guide said baitfish patterns 2.5 to 3" so maybe this?



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Both look greatl! Do you have a pattern or recipe.
 

karstopo

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I have my first saltwater guide trip scheduled for next week, and it looks as if we will be fishing the Titusville/Mosquito Lagoon area, so I figure that redfish may be on the radar. The guide tells me that the fishing has been good but water has been cloudy, and they have been using dark "shrimpy" or baitfish patterns. I want to tie a few flies myself to try, but I have never caught redfish, so if anyone with experience can recommend one or two patterns that work, I would appreciate the advice.
Let us know what happens and what worked.
 

deceiverbob

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MJ, in addition to the flies you pictured above, you may want to incluse something with little to no flash. I have seen them refuse, turn away from a flashy fly, and then take a drab fly, especially in really clear water.
 

mjkirshner

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Let us know what happens and what worked.
It was a very successful day!! We started out at 8 am and headed up the Indian River to a spot just outside of Manatee Cove Park, on Merritt Island. There were dolphins and manatees there, and the boat was spooking the manatees, so we headed into the cove... which was full of juvenile tarpon. I hooked a total of four, and while we only got one into the boat, I got the leader to my rod tip with all three of the others. Those were caught on a purple tarpon bunny using my 8 wt BVK with TFO LA 340 and SA Summer Redfish WF9F. That rod is fun to cast, and overlining it seems to work best. Being able to cast lefty or righty worked out very well, as we were inside a rectangular cove with tarpon rolling all along the perimeter, so I was able to drop a fly wherever we saw them.

After the sun got a little higher, we headed north toward Titusville, and the guide poled the boat along the shore on the east side of the KSC.... where I caught my first black drum ever. The water was high and still pretty dirty from the hurricane, but I learned how to spot drums and redfish. The drum was caught on a dark crab pattern using the guide's Loomis NRX (9-wt, 1 pc) with a Nautilus reel and Cortland Liquid Crystal Guide Taper. The fly was heavy and a PITA to cast, but the water was dark and I was throwing to fish less than 20 feet away. It was more like flinging than casting. The strip was a slow stop-and-start crawl along the bottom.

We started spotting redfish as we moved north, so switched over to a dark shrimp pattern with a little less weight. I finally got a redfish to eat it, but it took me casting to him three times before he took it. The strip was a short fast bump bump bump, but I didn't keep the fly moving enough, and he kept losing interest when it stopped. I finally got him to eat the fly, but didn't have enough pressure on and he threw the hook just as I got him to the boat.

So... I caught my first baby tarpon, first black drum, and first redfish, and got photos of two out of the three. The photos of the tarpon and drum are in the Warmwater Pics section.

I also learned how to spot tarpon, redfish and black drums, and the different ways to strip the fly for each species. It was interesting the way the drum only ate the crab fly when it stopped moving, while the redfish lost interest when the shrimp pattern stopped, and only went for it when it was moving.

The drum was the biggest fish I've caught, but the tarpon were the best fighters. Now I am obsessed with catching more tarpon.. this time on my own flies.

I start tying them tomorrow!

When the weather gets cooler, I'm going back up to try Mosquito Lagoon.

If you are ever in the Melbourne (FL not AU) area, and want a good guide, look up Capt Willy Le @ Native Fly Charters.

---------- Post added at 09:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 PM ----------

MJ, in addition to the flies you pictured above, you may want to incluse something with little to no flash. I have seen them refuse, turn away from a flashy fly, and then take a drab fly, especially in really clear water.
The one thing we don't have right now is really clear water. Too much junk washed into the high water from the hurricane. That said, we caught tarpon on a purple fly with no flash, but the drum and redfish both ate flies with some flash. I tied those specifically because the guide told me that the water was dark and the fish were hitting dark flies with some flash. However, I never used my own flies, just the ones he tied on.

---------- Post added at 10:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 PM ----------

Both look greatl! Do you have a pattern or recipe.
They are both tied on 1/0 Gamakatsu SL12 saltwater hooks.

The first one is a brown marabou tail, with copper UV Polar Chenille (palmered) body, clear fish mask head, and 3D eyes. If you've never tried those fish mask heads, they make a nice tight finish and a good base for gluing on the 3D eyes.

The second one is a *******ized Kinky Muddler. (FYI, I did not put in the *******. The site did that. I wrote *******ized. :D )

Okay, fine! If I can't name it the *******ized Kinky Muddler, I will name it the Kind-Sorta Kinky Muddler.

The tail is two white saddle hackles tied on @ 45 degree angles, then two layers of two olive saddle hackles tied on top of the white at the same angle. Then a couple pieces of copper crystal flash. The body is EP fiber (olive over gray) tied on in EP baitfish style but rolled around the hook shank to make it "poof" out. Finished with 3D eyes and trimmed to shape.
 

karstopo

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Sounds like a great day. Getting up shallow scouting for fish is usually fun. You showed having a left and right hand cast is really helpful on the bow of a boat. I fish muddy/not clear water much of the time and there are some advantages to that provided you can spot some fish. I haven't had any shots at tarpon with the fly rod yet, but I keep hoping.

Thanks for the report.
 

mjkirshner

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You showed having a left and right hand cast is really helpful on the bow of a boat. I fish muddy/not clear water much of the time and there are some advantages to that provided you can spot some fish.
I am technically left-handed, but kind of "whacki-dexterous", as I write lefty, but play guitar righty; play tennis/racketball lefty, but golf, bat and throw righty. (Not sure about shuffleboard or bocce ball, but I suspect lefty on one and righty on the other.) I am not really ambidextrous, as I cannot do any of those things "other-handed." I do them either left- or right-handed, but not both. However, fly casting is one that I can do with either hand. The guide actually felt that I cast better right-handed, although I am not sure I believe that. I have more power casting left-handed, but I may have more finesse casting with the right. In any case, given the wind that we have to contend with here, it is helpful to be able to switch-hit with the fly rod.

I haven't had any shots at tarpon with the fly rod yet, but I keep hoping.
If you ever get to SoFl, look me up and we'll see what we can do about that. I've tried for them before, but never knew what I was doing. As much as the trip on Tuesday was fun because of the fish I caught, it was more importantly a learning experience. I now know what rolling tarpon look like and can tell the difference from mullet jumping (at least, I think I can). I'm going to check out a spot a little closer to home for the juveniles, and once I get a few more of little ones under my belt, I am going to head to the keys and try for the bigger ones.
 

karstopo

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I am technically left-handed, but kind of "whacki-dexterous", as I write lefty, but play guitar righty; play tennis/racketball lefty, but golf, bat and throw righty. (Not sure about shuffleboard or bocce ball, but I suspect lefty on one and righty on the other.) I am not really ambidextrous, as I cannot do any of those things "other-handed." I do them either left- or right-handed, but not both. However, fly casting is one that I can do with either hand. The guide actually felt that I cast better right-handed, although I am not sure I believe that. I have more power casting left-handed, but I may have more finesse casting with the right. In any case, given the wind that we have to contend with here, it is helpful to be able to switch-hit with the fly rod.

If you ever get to SoFl, look me up and we'll see what we can do about that.
That's a nice invite, thank you. I kind of want to travel more, but let me help these kids get through college first. Juvenile tarpon are on the increase here. I have some spots in mind, but just have to make it happen.

I never thought I was ambidextrous since I did everything right handed but found out I could cast left handed when I hurt my right shoulder. Last time out, I ended up fishing the majority of the time from the left side which was breaking new ground. It's almost like my left side has been better at obeying the rules of fly casting than my right side that has had to unlearn years of using baitcasting reels and rods.

Anyhow, thanks for the report. Black drum, tarpon and redfish on the same outing, that's a great day.
 

mjkirshner

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It's almost like my left side has been better at obeying the rules of fly casting than my right side that has had to unlearn years of using baitcasting reels and rods.
I wonder if casting with the dominant arm sometimes overpowers the rod, and when casting with the other, we are not putting as much force into it, so the rod is being allowed to do what it is designed to do.
 
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