Any permit guys out there?

[brokeoff]

Looking to ask lots of questions from people with experience.

 

[jr spey]

I've spent something like 100 days flyfishing for permit in the Keys, Belize, Mexico, and the Bahamas. Ask away. Beware I will be on a fishing trip with minimal internet reception starting tomorrow so it might be next weekend before I can respond to any questions.

 

[brokeoff]

I've spent something like 100 days flyfishing for permit in the Keys, Belize, Mexico, and the Bahamas. Ask away. Beware I will be on a fishing trip with minimal internet reception starting tomorrow so it might be next weekend before I can respond to any questions.

First, what do you pack for rods when traveling south? Also, what lines do you like?

I am trying to find a line for my 10 wt Exocett and I'm not thrilled with most of the options. They all seem so heavy. I tried my 9 wt OBS @ 375 gr and it turned the rod into a noodle. The was just a test to get a feel.

I'm heading to Hopkins in August of 18 and I don't really know what do expect. One guide in the Keys said, "be able to cast accurately to 50 in any wind." A guide in Belize said, "remember, here we say, life starts at 60 ft."

Now that you've mentioned your travel experience, where would you go for your first trip? Where would you go for your next trip?

 

[camelbrass]

I’m not a permit expert by any means but have cast at, and been refused by, quite a few Indo-Pacific Permit.

I must admit that I don’t subscribe to the whole ‘50 foot is enough mantra’. It may be that most fish are caught within 50ft but with most saltwater flyfishing that 50 ft can come in all kinds of wind conditions and sea states. On the flats it’s about accuracy, particularly with permit. A 50 foot cast that isn’t landed in the zone (for permit that zone is remarkably small) and scatters all the fish on the flat is unlikely to cut the mustard. Getting together a great 50 foot cast requires that your ‘bang it out there’ cast is much longer.

I use the Exocett 10wt as well. I find that they’re true to weight and work best with less aggressive tapers. I’ve gone back to a Rio Permit line when fishing the flats.

Regards,


Trevor

 

[wjc]

I’m not a permit expert by any means but have cast at, and refused by, quite a few Indo-Pacific Permit.

Ditto for me during daylight - just substitute Upper Keys. But like many fish, such as tarpon, browns and bonefish - their caution drops to nearly nothing at night and they will take a fly pretty readily, including the bigger ones.

 

[jr spey]

First, what do you pack for rods when traveling south? Also, what lines do you like?

I've used lots of rods, but my last several trips I used the Beulah Opals. I use 8 or 9 weights in Belize and Mexico and 10 weights in the Keys.

I am trying to find a line for my 10 wt Exocett and I'm not thrilled with most of the options. They all seem so heavy. I tried my 9 wt OBS @ 375 gr and it turned the rod into a noodle. The was just a test to get a feel.

Forget integrated shooting head lines. You want something with a long head. I personally use the Airflo Tropical Ridge clear tip floating line. The head on it is I think about 54'. The other companies make a similar line. I'm not familiar with the Exocett so I cannot recommend whether you'll need to up-line or not. I usually do with my Opals, but don't with my Edge rods, which I will use if I go permit fishing again. You often need to upline fast/stiff rods as you'll need to be able to load the rod very quickly with minimal line extending from the rod tip.

I'm heading to Hopkins in August of 18 and I don't really know what do expect. One guide in the Keys said, "be able to cast accurately to 50 in any wind." A guide in Belize said, "remember, here we say, life starts at 60 ft."

They're both right in their own way. Most of my casts in permit alley were not 60'. You'll most likely be fishing permit alley if you go to Hopkins. Although you can fish from a boat, most guys wade that area and 60' is not needed. However, there are lots of other places in Belize and Mexico where 60' is almost mandatory. Being able to cast accurately to 50' in any wind is something my guide in the Keys would say. However, being able to do so to 60' is even better. Being able to pick up 50-60' of line off the water and replacing it without stripping in line or false casting may be even more important. That's really a task in the Keys with the heavy flies they use there. Don't let anyone tell you it can't be done. If you can load the rod quickly without uplining it will help you as you'll have fewer grains to pick up at that distance.

Now that you've mentioned your travel experience, where would you go for your first trip? Where would you go for your next trip?

I think Hopkins Bay is a great choice for a first trip. I've given consideration to doing so again, but age has made that type of fishing less likely for me recently. If I did another trip it would either be to Hopkins or to the lower Keys.

 

[brokeoff]

I think Hopkins Bay is a great choice for a first trip. I've given consideration to doing so again, but age has made that type of fishing less likely for me recently. If I did another trip it would either be to Hopkins or to the lower Keys.

I'm hoping for lower Keys in 2019. Unfortunately, I was going to get a day out this past October but the trip was cancelled due to Irma.

I think I am going to bite the bullet and pick up a bunch of lines and see what I like. Looking at the Airflo clear tip short but I was very confused about the head weight. The website has the 10 wt head at 500 gr. I know I get carried away with grains but it spooked me since the 9 wt OBS at 375 seemed over lined.

This is all good information and I think it will take some experimentation.

 

[jr spey]

I'm hoping for lower Keys in 2019. Unfortunately, I was going to get a day out this past October but the trip was cancelled due to Irma.

I think I am going to bite the bullet and pick up a bunch of lines and see what I like. Looking at the Airflo clear tip short but I was very confused about the head weight. The website has the 10 wt head at 500 gr. I know I get carried away with grains but it spooked me since the 9 wt OBS at 375 seemed over lined.

This is all good information and I think it will take some experimentation.

Once again, do NOT buy a shorthead line. It's useless for 95% of permit fishing. Find something with at least 40' of head length, and 50+ is better as noted above. It's the only way one can pick up 50-60' of line without stripping in a bunch of line first.

 

[brokeoff]

I’m not a permit expert by any means but have cast at, and been refused by, quite a few Indo-Pacific Permit.

I must admit that I don’t subscribe to the whole ‘50 foot is enough mantra’. It may be that most fish are caught within 50ft but with most saltwater flyfishing that 50 ft can come in all kinds of wind conditions and sea states. On the flats it’s about accuracy, particularly with permit. A 50 foot cast that isn’t landed in the zone (for permit that zone is remarkably small) and scatters all the fish on the flat is unlikely to cut the mustard. Getting together a great 50 foot cast requires that your ‘bang it out there’ cast is much longer.

I use the Exocett 10wt as well. I find that they’re true to weight and work best with less aggressive tapers. I’ve gone back to a Rio Permit line when fishing the flats.

Regards,


Trevor

I'm interested in the taper of the Rio Permit and Flats Pro but they seem heavy. I think I just need to try one out.

 

[flyminded]

Try to find out who your local Sage/Reddington/Rio rep is ...and try to meet up with him at your local fly shop ...he likely will have demo lines for you to try in the parking lot ...I know not the same as being on the water with the wind, but at least you’ll get a feel for preferred line ...and likely if they are a good rep a little casting advice.

 

[brokeoff]

How do things change if some of the trip will be wade fishing?

 

[pnc]

Read through posts quick. Been fishing or sleeping past week. Live in Fl. , plenty of permit. I prefer a 9w rod. Have used 10w , but it was rod in hand with tarpon toad.
A 9 might seem light to some a 10 heavy. Both might be an idea considering. With time & travel involved. Imo, what line you use should be that which you cast best. Accurately from 35 to 75'. More would be better. Likely not needed. But won't hurt fishing flats. Wading does differ from being on a boat. Unless spotting fish tailing at a distance. Most fish will be seen closer to you. If your quiet ! Not having an elevated position. Like deck or platform. Has advantages and disadvantages. You won't spot fish as far off. But same for them, they won't spot you as fast or far off.
Any fish in skinny water is going to be alert. Spooky if you like. A rule of thumb for wading. If you can hear yourself moving...... slow down ! Your making to much noise. This is what makes a difference between catching fish or even seeing one on flats.

......... pc

 

[jr spey]

Back from my trip...I agree that nines or tens work in the Keys. It's not so much the size of the fish that determines the best rod weight, but the weight of the permit fly and the wind conditions. In permit alley off Belize, where the go-to fly is the #6 Bauer crab that is only lightly weighted, an eight works fine and without much wind, one could use a seven. In the Keys, I've fished with Bruce Chard several times, and he prefers really heavily weighted flies. There a ten is almost mandatory, especially if there's much wind (and it seems there's almost always wind down there.).

 

[sweetandsalt]

I'm not a permit expert either but I love them. I have seen many more than I have cast to and cast to many more than I have feed and the biggest one I have feed, I lost...but I have taken a few and want more.

In both the lower Keys and Belize I like to have both a #9 and 10 rigged with different size and weight crab flies...see my Sideways Swimming Crab under Saltwater Articles below. In the Bahamas I have the 9-weight rigged with a good sized crab fly for both bigger bones on deeper flats and the less likely shot at a permit; you never know.

I too eschew short head lines and like RIO Permit for both Permit and bonefish. I fished new RIO Flats Pro in 8-weight a few days ago on a northern Seychelles flat but saw and certainly didn't catch anything though I threw the line...for fun...I have yet to develop an opinion about it other than it did not tangle, yeah.

I like long Fluoro leaders and Bruce Chard's aggressive but long rear tapered Grand Slam from SA (casts a little better than the Airflo version, Tropical Punch) requires them and is a great line when dealing with wind (when aren't we) and I like Cortland's Liquid Crystal Blue too but only from a skiff.

Regarding distance; I have hooked permit as close as 40' but accuracy at distance is an asset. My current flats 9-weight is Sage SALT, a very fine rod, I don't care what anyone says. Perhaps a #9 Method might be a better permit specialty rod but I don't have one and the best specialty rod for few but long, dead accurate casts I've every used was the old Sage TCX. The one I successfully fished was a "loaner" and to this day I regret not having bought it. Perhaps when Method 2"HD" comes out I'll have a second chance but until then, SALT, which I have compared to all the other contenders except Exocet, is my go-to.

 

[jamesrick]

Hi, I also own and fish the SALT 990 and regard it as a great rod for longer distances an heavier flies. Ich fish it with airflos tropical punch which fits goo imho also for longer casts. I found the SALT on sale and it was a grat bargain.

@SS How was your trip to the Seychelles besides catching nothing wit the new flats pro? I only fished Mahe, nice landscape some good flats but the fishery is not comparable with the outer islands... on the other hand it's much cheaper.

 

[sweetandsalt]

I only fished Mahe, nice landscape some good flats but the fishery is not comparable with the outer islands... on the other hand it's much cheaper.

I am going to report on this but need to get my images in order and think about it. Like you, I fished Praslin in the north not the famed and costly atolls to the south.

 

[jamesrick]

Hi SS,

looking forward for your report!

 

[brokeoff]

Back from my trip...I agree that nines or tens work in the Keys. It's not so much the size of the fish that determines the best rod weight, but the weight of the permit fly and the wind conditions. In permit alley off Belize, where the go-to fly is the #6 Bauer crab that is only lightly weighted, an eight works fine and without much wind, one could use a seven. In the Keys, I've fished with Bruce Chard several times, and he prefers really heavily weighted flies. There a ten is almost mandatory, especially if there's much wind (and it seems there's almost always wind down there.).

If you had to pick your top three weeks for fishing the Lower Keys what would they be? The weeks can be consecutive or not.

 

[pnc]

Have seen several post stating experience is not that of an expert. Whether permit, tarpon, bones, or anything else in salt. Especially on flats. The only thing one knows for certin that they can get right 100% all the time. Is how to spell permit or whatever it might be.
While some may be proclaimed as experts by others. What they are is more experienced. Experience comes with time. And over time with more experience. More techniques learned. Knowledge of fish habits. While more fish may have been caught. There were more days pulling out hair. You just never know. Except the spelling.

........ pc

 

[jr spey]

If you had to pick your top three weeks for fishing the Lower Keys what would they be? The weeks can be consecutive or not.

That's actually a tougher question than it seems. It is really weather dependent and permit fishing can be good any time the weather is stable. In general, they spawn in April into early May and that takes place offshore. If you can deal with the wind the first three weeks of March can be quite good. I've always enjoyed permit fishing in the fall. However, hurricane season can be an issue in early fall, and Fantasy Fest can make it quite expensive and frustrating in late October, even up into the Big Pine area. I've done early November, but that can also be very windy and cold fronts are more common. I've never done summer, but I've been told by others that it can be terrific. For me, fishing back home is too good to spend a lot of money fishing elsewhere. I guess you roll the dice and hope for consistent weather.