12 wt with 3 stripping guides

Scootermax

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I bought an older 12 wt with 3 stripping guides. I noticed all the rods I have seen have two. It is a TFO “IM6 Graphite”. This rod was discontinued in 2003. It is a 4 piece rod. Is there any advantage or reason to use 3 stripping guides? It casts & fights fish fine.
 

original cormorant

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I have one too - bought in KMart Islamorada in 2000. No issue with the 3 stripping guides.

I guess they were discontinued when Lefty got involved with TFO and all TFO rods were redesigned (or perhaps simply rebranded) with the Lefty name.
 

silver creek

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I bought an older 12 wt with 3 stripping guides. I noticed all the rods I have seen have two. It is a TFO “IM6 Graphite”. This rod was discontinued in 2003. It is a 4 piece rod. Is there any advantage or reason to use 3 stripping guides? It casts & fights fish fine.
To my knowledge there is no reason for more than 1 stripping guide, at least that is what Gary Borger told me. All the rods he designed have just one stripping guide.

The stripping guide's purpose is to act as a funnel for the line for during the cast and to be the smooth abrasion resistant edge over which the line is stripped/reeled in. Hence the hard ceramic ring guide. Once the first guide has gathered the line, what function do the 2nd and 3rd stripping guides perform except to degrade the rod action? Perhaps if the first guide is huge, the second and third serve to further gather the line? You have to see if that function could be performed by tapering snake guides.

In my opinion, additional stripping guides add unnecessary mass and cost. The 2nd and 3rd stripping guides will stiffen that area of the rod sections and hinder the rod action.

Maybe I am wrong and on high line wt rods; maybe additional stripping guides make up for the added mass by increasing castability???? 2 stripping guides used to be relatively common even on some trout rods.
 
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Scootermax

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Silver:
Thanks for the info.

Just something I noticed on this rod. 70’ casts with it, so it working ok for me.
 

wjc

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Once the first guide has gathered the line, what function do the 2nd and 3rd stripping guides perform except to degrade the rod action? Perhaps if the first guide is huge, the second and third serve to further gather the line? You have to see if that function could be performed by tapering snake guides.

In my opinion, additional stripping guides add unnecessary mass and cost. The 2nd and 3rd stripping guides will stiffen that area of the rod sections and hinder the rod action.

Maybe I am wrong and on high line wt rods; maybe additional stripping guides make up for the added mass by increasing castability???? 2 stripping guides used to be relatively common even on some trout rods.
The lower rod action can hardly be degraded by ceramic insert guides in 11 wt and larger rods rods considering the weight of the blank, the line and the reel. They are there for friction reduction when fighting fish on a very bent rod, especially in warm climates in salt water where the lines are soft from the heat and sticky from partially recrystallized salt water.

Look at the two photos below and you'll notice that the line forms a distinct angle at each guide of the first few guides until it gets up the rod length where that angle becomes so obtuse as to be almost in a straight line with the snake guides because the rod is far more flexible up there.

Remember that just because the line goes from 4" on the reel down to the stripping guide, it does not continue in a straight line to the next one because the rod is bent. So there is a lot of friction on that second and also the third guide as well.

The difference between a 5 wt rod design and a 12 wt design is about the same as between a Ford Taurus and a Peter Built.

A couple pics to illustrate what I'm talking about.

You can see how linear the line is compared to the rod bend even though the guy is retrieving line because the reel is off the rod blank plane. Unfortunately the second guide is out of the frame.

focused.jpg

The one below shows enough guides to illustrate my point. You'll notice that it has only two ceramic guides, not three.

Yet you will also notice that there is a very distinct angle formed by the line on that third (snake) guide. Yet all the remaining guides are almost parallel to the rod because it is bent nearly straight down.

You may also notice that the guy's shirt is unbuttoned because it is so hot and still. The line coating is very soft despite the solid hard monocore it is formed onto.

In my view, under those conditions a ceramic guide would have been very beneficial.
rodbend.jpg

Some beautiful music from the picture above.

[video]http://www.miterclamp.com/videos/beautiful_music.mp4[/video]
 
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bonefish41

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To add another illustrative picture to WJC's post...15 years past when I used a 12wt...HardPull.jpg

straight line top two sections...bottom two the fighting curve
 

silver creek

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Thanks WJC!

I do appreciate you posting those photos showing why additional stripping guides are needed on those heavier line wt rods.
 
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wjc

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Thank you Silver for all your posts.

I don't see any reason for more than one "stripping" guide either, until you get into fast running fish and drawn-out fish fights in the salt.

Most of the "stripping" guides on the old fresh water bamboo rods were agate or some other kind of ceramic inserts and were very small and were indeed "stripping" guides from the constant stripping and hauling.

Back when I fished fresh water a whole lot, my main rod was a Leonard Duracaine, and I had all the snake guides replaced once (and should have been twice), and the tip top twice because they wore so quickly they sharpened up and proceeded to eat lines up.

The ceramic "stripping' guide was fine, being much harder than the "nickel silver" being used in those days. But the rest of the snake guides were fine for somebody who wasn't a fishing fool whose life revolved around fishing from ice out to ice in year after year.
 

sweetandsalt

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Guide sets are one of the most unappreciated components of all fly rods. Not only for line alignment (with the flexing blank), limiting line "slap" against the blank and shooting during the cast but for fluid feeding of slack into the drift in trout water and fighting big boys in the salt. Once I compared two very fine 9'/#5's during fishing. I somewhat preferred one's casting characteristics but the other's larger size guide set for slack line manipulation. A conundrum. For that particular river which required elaborate drift control, line handling outperformed superior casting traits.
 
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