Sage Z-Axis vs Winston Boron IIx

domel · Nov 23, 2008

Hello
I collect some money because I want to buy high end rod. I hesitate between: Sage Z-Axis and Winston Boron IIx.
I need universal rod, #5 and 9' lenght. I know that there are no uniwersla rods but I want rod I could use in different conditions whem I go for trip and I have to take only one rod. What would you recommend? Which rod of these two? Or you could recommend some another one?
BR
Tom

Pocono · Nov 23, 2008

As I think everyone will tell you, the two rods that you mention are both very good choices. There are others, and I think that you'll hear about them on subsequent posts.

But within the context of the initial question that you pose, for me, if I was looking only at one high-end 9' 5 wt. rod, then I would chose the Winston BIIx.

I, myself, use the Sage Z-Axis 9' 5 wt. as my primary rod for medium to large water. My wife uses the Winston BIIx. Overall, it's much easier for me to cast here BIIx than it is for her to cast my Z-Axis. I refer to my Z-Axis as "the cannon". It's definitely an "into the backing" type of rod, with gobs of reserve power to put large bushy patterns out into the stream. But, for smaller stream fishing, the 15-30' range isn't, for me, very sensitive. The BIIx, in my hands, won't match the Z-Axis's ability to cast long distances, but I like it better in close. There's also something to the "lore" about the feel of a Winston rod for pure casting pleasure.

So, if I was going to be doing primarily big water fishing and if I wanted to do a little occasional "show-boat" casting for my buds, then I'd take the Z-Axis. For other water (which is what I fish most of the time), if I had to do it over again, I'd take the BIIx.

Jackster · Nov 23, 2008

The BIIx is about the best all-around rod I've ever used, cast or owned. It's really that simple. The test I do with 'fishing' rods is to see if they work close-in and at normal fishing ranges. When I got my first BIIx (a 6 weight) my first casts were in the 20-30' range. It worked and felt so nice and alive at those ranges, I just knew it couldn't handle long casts. Boy was I wrong! A haul or two and the line was in the backing. That right there sold me on them.
I have no problem getting distance out of them either. The key there is SMOOOTH! Horse those rods and they'll tail every time.

If you like rods that are very light weight, have range up the wazoo and are drop-dead gorgeous, the choice is easy! :starwars:

BlueDun · Nov 23, 2008

There is no substitute for trying the two rods yourself because your casting style and rod preferences might be different from the people who post on fly fishing forums. If you do not have any rods available to try, then refer back to Pocono's post - that is a good summary comparison of the two rods.

For myself, I find the Z-Axis two stiff. I don't need a rocket for casting in the areas where I usually fish. The BIIx handles flies of various sizes vary well and is perfect for what I need for casting 15 - 40 feet. If I did more lake fishing or if I fished on really wide rivers, I would probably have a Z-Axis.

crittergetter · Nov 24, 2008

I just spent this fall trying most all Scotts G, G2, SES, SCS, S3, Z axis and the Borron IIx ( I purchased all 8 rod on ebay over 4 months)

Borron and Z are two different rods. Try them on stream first and you will see.

The Borron is absolutely the lightest rod you will ever pick up. And it can lay out a top water presentation like dropping a feather on a cotton ball. For a light rod it can actually cast like no other also.

However, I love the Z. I actually got a 10' Z and am enjoying long cast and nymphing pickup like no other (except the Scott G2)

It is all about you, your technique and what you want to fish. For nymphing I found I snagged hooked more with the Borron than I did with the Z. If I just cast this rod on the lawn I wouldn't have known.

Good luck..
Critter

PS.. I am about to try to Resell all but 3 of the rods in the classified. Drop me a note if you are interested. The Borron is a 4wt.

domel · Nov 24, 2008

Hello
Thanks for answers. For that moment I unfortunately can't try both rods. None of my friends has these rods and I can no possibility to try them. I hesitate between these rods because I read a lot of good words about them and more people think that B IIx is better. But... few months ago I purchased in Winston Vapor. Rad was quite nice but it was badly made - guides were not in the same line - they were badly aligned. I wrote to Winston but they did not want to resolve this problem - I would have to pay additionally for shipment and insurance, what was bad idea for me. Producer is responsible for quality not customer I found it unjust that I would have to pay additionally for somebody's mistake. So I am afraid of rod with mark of Winston.
I think I will try to find another of my colleagues - fly fishermen who have one of these rods and I think I will nave to visit them for tests. And additionally it will be good occasion to met them.

BR
Tom

BlueDun · Nov 25, 2008

domel said:
Hello
.. few months ago I purchased in Winston Vapor. Rad was quite nice but it was badly made - guides were not in the same line - they were badly aligned. I wrote to Winston but they did not want to resolve this problem - I would have to pay additionally for shipment and insurance, what was bad idea for me. Producer is responsible for quality not customer I found it unjust that I would have to pay additionally for somebody's mistake. So I am afraid of rod with mark of Winston.

The Vapor and the BIIx are vastly different types of rods. When you look at both of them, you can tell that the Vapor is clearly an inexpensive rod, while the BIIx is clearly an expensive rod. Also, I have not heard of anyone having problems with repairs. If you want to get more opinions, go to the Winston forum and ask the folks there - people on that forum are very honest about anything they don't like or want Winston to change :icon_smil
Winston Rods :: Index

Joni · Nov 25, 2008

I have a BIIX, and got it for a sweet deal, but love it non the less. I have wanted the Z for years in fact I also wanted the ZXL. While at the fly tying expo in I.F this year, I got to try both......I WANTED A SAGE AGAIN. But, I tried ST2, Gold, Ridgeline, Windcutter on both rods and have to say I am glad I went with the BIIx and the JWF. I was surprised and a little disappointed with the Sage, but, maybe if I had cast them first, the story would be different.........naw!

domel · Nov 25, 2008

BlueDun said:
The Vapor and the BIIx are vastly different types of rods. When you look at both of them, you can tell that the Vapor is clearly an inexpensive rod, while the BIIx is clearly an expensive rod.

Hello
I think that inexpensive rods should be inexpensive because of material used for their production.
I think that workmanship should be on the same level as other rods. You can use less expensive blank, guide, thread etc. but You should build rod in right way.
Basic mistakes with guide alignment should have no place in such a exclusive rod producer. That's my opinion.
BR
tom

domel · Nov 25, 2008

Moreover
I live in Poland

I purchased rod in US Internet shop - sending back rod for repair or change is quite difficult and expensive and takes a lot of time:-(
BR
tom

BlueDun · Nov 26, 2008

I still recommend checking on the Winston forum re: customer service and quality issues. There are people on that forum from Australia and several other countries, so they can share any experiences they might have had overseas with Winston customer service in the US. Although Winston sponsors the site, the forum members are pretty honest with their opinions. If they are unhappy, they will say so.

Winston Rods :: Index

Joni · Nov 26, 2008

BlueDun said:
I still recommend checking on the Winston forum re: customer service and quality issues. There are people on that forum from Australia and several other countries, so they can share any experiences they might have had overseas with Winston customer service in the US. Although Winston sponsors the site, the forum members are pretty honest with their opinions. If they are unhappy, they will say so.

Winston Rods :: Index

I don't know about that. I do go to the Winston forum, but I don't find it that informative.
They all seem to be in a click, and love patting each other on the back. I have yet to read anything with PROOF behind it.
No offense, just my feelings. This site you can get hands on answers and good ones.

Is all rod manufacturers a bit of a hassle in Poland, or is it just Winston?
I do find there warranty work a little stricter than others but that is a good thing.

mojo · Nov 26, 2008

Are you fishing for grayling and trout or both? Fast mountain streams? Dry fly and nymphing with streamers thrown in once in a while if you fish stillwater? Sage's Z will be around for another year until they replace it with another model. You'll then be able to pick it up for about half the price it is now. It's a good rod, I liked it but my opinion is, it's not as smooth and natural casting (if there is such a term) as a BIIX. The Z is a nice rod but not my style.
The BIIX will be around for quite a while. I agree with others it's lighter in hand and casting, and most of your casts will be in the 60 foot and under range (not saying the Winston won't cast farther than that) am I correct?
I say get the Winston, keep saving and when the Sage goes on sale, buy it then.
FWIW the Vapor is made in Asia (or was) and the BIIX in Montana. It (Vapor) was a cheap rod that was made so a Winston could get in the hands of just about everyone at any kind of budget. Winston has some expensive rods and they're proud of them- just look at the $3000 bamboo they sell by first year builders..........

BlueDun · Nov 26, 2008

Joni said:
They all seem to be in a click, and love patting each other on the back. I have yet to read anything with PROOF behind it.
No offense, just my feelings. This site you can get hands on answers and good ones.

No offense taken - you are right. Usually after the first few posts in a thread, they get into the back-slapping. I've usually found what I needed and stopped reading the thread by then. :smile:

Sorry domel, back to your original topic.

ksbrowntrout2 · Nov 30, 2008

i wouldgo with the winston....much smoother

domel · Dec 1, 2008

mojo said:
Are you fishing for grayling and trout or both? Fast mountain streams? Dry fly and nymphing with streamers thrown in once in a while if you fish stillwater? Sage's Z will be around for another year until they replace it with another model. You'll then be able to pick it up for about half the price it is now. It's a good rod, I liked it but my opinion is, it's not as smooth and natural casting (if there is such a term) as a BIIX. The Z is a nice rod but not my style.
The BIIX will be around for quite a while. I agree with others it's lighter in hand and casting, and most of your casts will be in the 60 foot and under range (not saying the Winston won't cast farther than that) am I correct?
I say get the Winston, keep saving and when the Sage goes on sale, buy it then.
FWIW the Vapor is made in Asia (or was) and the BIIX in Montana. It (Vapor) was a cheap rod that was made so a Winston could get in the hands of just about everyone at any kind of budget. Winston has some expensive rods and they're proud of them- just look at the $3000 bamboo they sell by first year builders..........

I need universal rod, one that I could take both for trout, grayling and for chub and other white fish. I want to buy rod that I will take for trips when I can take only one rod. And I want to fish mainly for nymph, but in particular conditions I will fish dry flies or small streamer. Having only oner rod I think I will use it both with floating lines and with sinking ones (I'm going to take reel with 2 or 3 spare spools with different lines). I know that there are no universal rods, but very often I go fishing with only 1 rod and). For example I take rod for dry flies and coming to water I find that there are no fish feeding from surface but there are a lot of fish far from me near river bottom

. I almost decided to buy Z-Axis but a lot of fellows say that BIIx is better.
It's a pity that I have no fellows who have these rods that I could try them fishing.
BR
tom

ksbrowntrout2 · Dec 1, 2008

go to any fly shop, and they will probably let you test cast them side by side. I dont think anyone should buy a high end rod without test casting it first.

crittergetter · Dec 2, 2008

I just listed my Winston B IIX. I think the price is fair enough to re-list if you don't like it.

Personally, after trying the Z and BIIX. I would say the BIIX is not the universal rod you look for. It is a fantastic dry rod (at 4wt the one I tried) but two weighted nymphs with indicator make it a bit loose. It is still castable but pickups are not as fast. (my opinion). The Z is fast and works for both.

My however is, I tried these two and a Scott G2. I am now leaning to the G2 as my Goto rod.

fishosopher · Dec 2, 2008

This is a non-answer, but it is my solution to your problem. Thanks in part to the sad demise of a local fly shop, I bought a Sage ZXL 590-4 and a Sage Z-axis 690-4 on sale. One's perfect for smaller water and delicate dry fly presentations. The other's a canon, a nymph and streamer rod, and good for some smallmouth situations. I put them both in a double rod-and-reel case and pull out the one that's best suited to the situation. Also, they act as each other's backup rod.

Yes, I'm a Sage fan. Going back to the SP 590, which my wife fishes now and loves, I like their medium to medium-fast rods. (I think the Z casts very much like a medium-fast rod...but more power.) I've tested their lifetime warranty, and it's for real. And they're beautiful.

dorian.ducker · Dec 2, 2008

crittergetter said:
I just listed my Winston B IIX. I think the price is fair enough to re-list if you don't like it.

Personally, after trying the Z and BIIX. I would say the BIIX is not the universal rod you look for. It is a fantastic dry rod (at 4wt the one I tried) but two weighted nymphs with indicator make it a bit loose. It is still castable but pickups are not as fast. (my opinion). The Z is fast and works for both.

My however is, I tried these two and a Scott G2. I am now leaning to the G2 as my Goto rod.

I cast the G2 and the Z Axis side by side the other day and like the Z much more. For me, I could shoot line a mile (by my standards) with both of them, but I could really feel the Z load better at short distances, increasing my accuracy (especially at short to medium distances). Also the Z felt lighter in the hand to me. They are both great rods and I would love to own either, I just wanted to pitch in my observations!

Sage Z-Axis vs Winston Boron IIx

Well-known member

Moderator

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member