Rough day fishing

angledangle · May 2, 2016

Well, got opening weekend going with a big goose egg on the South Fork Stan. Not sure if it was the incoming weather from the east or what but it sounded pretty bad for everyone aside from bait and spinning gear. Not every day I get stumped on a heavily stocked river

. Having thrown everything in the box in assorted size and color it looks like I am going back to the drawing board. Anyone got a good pocket entomology setup they want to share? Anyone have any last ditch flies when you have exhausted zugs, johns, stones, midge, brassie, prince in assorted colors and psycho, hares, pheasants, caddis larva, and a bunch of others I don't even know their names? The only thing I didn't try was a wooly:sorry: Always dawns on you off river right?!

Another thing occurred to me today. I can't seem to figure out the new Zealand strike indicator. I have tried countless times now and either stuff too much or too little. Today was too little as it quickly slid down the line to the top stone. Needless to say I went back to the bobber. I also treated the wool with floatant but after about 6 drifts it was sinking and sliding. What is the secret?

one last cast · May 2, 2016

Another thing occurred to me today. I can't seem to figure out the new Zealand strike indicator. I have tried countless times now and either stuff too much or too little. Today was too little as it quickly slid down the line to the top stone. Needless to say I went back to the bobber. I also treated the wool with floatant but after about 6 drifts it was sinking and sliding. What is the secret?

Try precutting the New Zealand wool at home. That's what I do. That way you can experiment on your leader and make sure you have the perfect amount when you need it on the river. I make an orange/green combo indicator. I also pretreat the indicators with floatant. I find that my New Zealand indicators rarely sink unless a fish, or a snag, causes it to. If your indicators are sinking perhaps your heavy nymphs are dragging it down. You could try moving the indicator up your leader a tad to prevent this. Once you perfect using the New Zealand indicators you're never going to go back to those plastic bobber things again.

el jefe · May 2, 2016

I've learned a few tricks with the NZ strike indicators, just through experimentation.

First, when setting it up, I roll the wool back and forth several times in my fingers to pack it pretty tightly. The denser ball you use, the better it seems to float.

Second, when setting it up, I pull on the leader until some wool just works its way into the tubing, which seems to hold better. The thinner the stretch of leader you're on, the more wool needs to work its way into the tubing to hold. The thinner leader material will cut the tubing, though, if you pull too quickly and aggressively. I had to break a few tubes to figure out how to do it right. The real thin areas of the leader (which I don't usually put a strike indicator on, anyway) will cut the tubing if you're not careful. If it does, load another piece of tubing and start over in 2 seconds. Easy peasy.

Third, experiment with the length of the tubing. Don't be afraid to go longer or shorter than the tubing that is pre-loaded on the threader. Longer tubing seems to hold better on thinner sections of leader. And you don't need to vary it by much, either; small adjustments do the trick.

Fourth, one of the great things about the NZ system is that you can use 2-3 small indicators in a row to float your rig, if one larger one isn't working. The more indicators you use, the smaller they go, and don't really seem to interfere with the cast. If you keep them all the same size as you add, then they'll start to interfere with the cast. That setup also gives me a better visual on current and drag, and is more sensitive picking up strikes, as the multiple indicators move in relation to one another. Plus, when you are using multiple indicators, and vary the colors either in a single ball or across several, you just look like a kickass fly fisherman who knows something no one else does, and if you play your cards right, you can have all of your beers bought for you that night, while you regale the unwashed with the finer points of your insights. To quote Carl Spackler, "So I got that goin' for me."

Fifth, don't take anything I said for Gospel, and my methods may not even work for you, but those are some starting points I stumbled upon. That's the great thing about the NZ system, that there are so many ways to use it, and you can quickly change it up for changing conditions. You'll stumble upon your own "Eureka" moment.

346xp · May 2, 2016

If your fishing a heavily socked stream and your not out fishing the spinners, you started all wrong.

They aren't throwing flies, so match your flies to what they are catching fish on, bright, flashy stuff.

Even if your not nymphing, use weighted nymphs, not split shot.
Don't be ashamed to throw squirmy worms, but tie them with tungsten beads and lead wire on jig hooks and add tippet to get them on the bottom.

If you didn't try a black wooly then you were too focused on your box of flies and not focussed on what fish eat. Keep in mind they have never seen your box. So you can stick to two or three patterns just try changing your presentation, if you caught 0, and didn't get a few takes you were probably not putting anything in front of the fish. Remember those fish are hungry, even the most river savvy old Brown will go take a taste of a black leechy looking bug if it comes bouncing around his dinner plate.

Go try again and good luck adding numbers in front of the 0.

mcnerney · May 2, 2016

Bummer about getting skunked! I know nothing about the South Fork Stanislaus River, but this time of year if your not seeing any bugs coming off and you looked around at the shore, turning a few rocks and looked at the vegetation and still didn't see anything I probably would have stuck with midges or small baetis patterns, maybe change up patterns and/or colors staying in the size 18-22 range.

The other thing with nymphing is to realize that you should have your indicator set at 1 1/2 to 2 times the depth of the water, but each time you move you need to be proactive and change up your rig by adjusting the depth from the indicator to your split shot and or adding or subtracting weight. You want your rig where it is just barely ticking the bottom. If your snagging or dragging the bottom you need to adjust, same goes for never touching the bottom (make an adjustment). Also, be meticulous with your mending, if your dragging even the slightest little bit, the fish will ignore your flies. Good luck!

rsagebrush · May 2, 2016

I noticed Yellow Sallies (Little Yellow Stones) on on of my creeks yesterday afternoon. These guys hatch through most of July around here.

Lots of hatches are active back east and my favorite, March Browns are out although they always seem quite sporadic here.

Of course and Elk Hair Caddis, mine without hackle always seem to interest a few.

And ants and beetles, there always around it seems.

My favorite time of the year for creek fishing back east.

angledangle · May 2, 2016

I actually did precut the wool the day before and balled it up. First time was way too much and it wouldn't get into the tube. Second time was obviously not enough. Best part was when I dropped the wool later in the day and it just floated on away before I could grab it. I was fishing a decent amount of weight to get down, large stone, prince, midge/copper/caddis/etc. Likely the slipping of the wool down the line resultd in the eventual sinking of the wool due to weight vs placement as was said. Now I need to get more wool. Another question. I have hair sheep that ars lanolin greased like pigs. They are shedding like crazy right now. Anyone ever use USA sheep wool? I think a science experiment is coming today.

Every fly angler on the river I ran across or was fishing with was skunked. There was a hatch of tiny white nats but the larva for those had to be beyond my midge sizes. Thrre was zero top action and it was a cold 40s morning. To add to that a storm was blowing in from the east as I got rained on driving home.

I would say I was ticking bottom pretty good but the main issue was finding loads of underwater debris. Lot of new trees hiding from increaed rain and drought deaths. It wasn't till later in yhe day that I sufferd modt of my losses. About the time I thought to myself, "no fish, but at least I am not losing flies".

Wearing a hoodie greatly reduced my desire to flip rocks as the first few wet arms really sucked before the sun broke. I turned over 5 or so rocks during the outing with each one completely bare! It was just one of those days. If I wasn't addicted I would never go back. Fortunately I am so tomorrow is another day.

ten_fiver · May 2, 2016

angledangle said:
...

Every fly angler on the river I ran across or was fishing with was skunked. There was a hatch of tiny white nats but the larva for those had to be beyond my midge sizes. Thrre was zero top action and it was a cold 40s morning. To add to that a storm was blowing in from the east as I got rained on driving home.

...

Per the highlighted part: you don't always have to exactly match the exact size of those tiny bugs. A lot of people fish midges with a griffith's gnat since it can appear to fish as a clump of midges rather than one. You could try something like that next time your in that situation.

angledangle · May 2, 2016

ten_fiver said:
Per the highlighted part: you don't always have to exactly match the exact size of those tiny bugs. A lot of people fish midges with a griffith's gnat since it can appear to fish as a clump of midges rather than one. You could try something like that next time your in that situation.

Would you try the dry with zero rising fish ever seen? Had I thought for a second top water or a dropper setup woul have been effective I would have tried. Aside from fish on stringers I never even saw one in the water. I did try white tiny nymphs wth no luck. I will break out the gnat next time. I am left wondering if it was just cold and the fish were being super selective to redufe movement. More likely my horrible presentation skills were to blame but at least everyone on the river was just as horrible

.

el jefe · May 3, 2016

I've actually tried other materials with the NZ strike indicator, too. I have this heavy rope-like yarn in my pack (I'm not ever sure what it is, but it was to be used for making strike indicators with a slip knot, most of which I just watched float away). That stuff worked OK, too. Once you get the NZ system, there are multiple ways to alter it.

tcorfey · May 3, 2016

The south fork was stocked on Sunday not sure what time, If you went on Saturday or early on Sunday the holdover's and wild trout were what was there. After the severe drought last year the water got real skinny and shallow so I would have been looking for the larger/deeper pools.

I have had good luck there with a bh Prince nymph and with SJ worms, also size 14-16 ants in black or red (there are a lot of ants in those woods) fished on the surface or sunk.

That place get's fished pretty heavily so if you were within a 1/4-1/2 mile of strawberry or fraser flat then later in the day most of what you fished might have already been covered by another angler which means the fish might have been spooked or at least pretty wary.

802flyfish · May 3, 2016

I've fished the New Zealand indicator a few times. However, it eventually gets wet and needs to be dried out. I would only bother using it if your fishing some low water levels that are crystal clear, like the blue River in Colorado. I would just stick with a small bobber indicator in white or glow in the dark. More time fishing equals more fish in your net. Go walk the river and turn some rocks up and see what you see. Might be just be me, but When I'm fishing heavily stocked rivers I like to throw stuff that's out of the ordinary. Some trout were rising one evening on the Blue in the middle of the winter. Tried everything that was hatching or should be hatching. Ended up throwing a purple Chernobyl and I ended up with a half dozen or some trout that evening..

angledangle · May 3, 2016

tcorfey said:
The south fork was stocked on Sunday not sure what time, If you went on Saturday or early on Sunday the holdover's and wild trout were what was there. After the severe drought last year the water got real skinny and shallow so I would have been looking for the larger/deeper pools.

I have had good luck there with a bh Prince nymph and with SJ worms, also size 14-16 ants in black or red (there are a lot of ants in those woods) fished on the surface or sunk.

That place get's fished pretty heavily so if you were within a 1/4-1/2 mile of strawberry or fraser flat then later in the day most of what you fished might have already been covered by another angler which means the fish might have been spooked or at least pretty wary.

Definitely not skinny or shallow now.rolling at 355cfs. We were out at sunrise and it was empty. Just dead. Prince was the only catch in the party streamers, san juan and every other nymph thrown by at least one of us. Seemed like everyone who arrived after us went down towards Lyons so that was nice but they also found fish while we got a nice morning hike in. I am heading out Wednesday and will either hit just above lyons or head up higher towards Clarks Fork Glacier area. They stocked pre season on the 24th I think and again on the first. The plan was to head to spring gap but time constraints left us looking closer. Hopefully tomorrow is a but more productive.

ten_fiver · May 3, 2016

angledangle said:
Would you try the dry with zero rising fish ever seen? Had I thought for a second top water or a dropper setup woul have been effective I would have tried. Aside from fish on stringers I never even saw one in the water. I did try white tiny nymphs wth no luck. I will break out the gnat next time. I am left wondering if it was just cold and the fish were being super selective to redufe movement. More likely my horrible presentation skills were to blame but at least everyone on the river was just as horrible.

Sorry, I didn't clarify my statement enough. The same concept applies to a wet fly. As a disclaimer, I've only fished this method with a griffith's gnat, but I read a very interesting article in a fly magazine that included a pattern for a wet fly to imitate a a group. It basically just looks like a milky 'blob' in the water. I've been digging through all my magazines trying to find the pattern for you, but for the life of me I can't find it. I made a mental note to tie some up and give it a shot, but obviously my mental notebook isn't what it used to be. If I come across the article I'll let you know.

angledangle · May 3, 2016

ten_fiver said:
Sorry, I didn't clarify my statement enough. The same concept applies to a wet fly. As a disclaimer, I've only fished this method with a griffith's gnat, but I read a very interesting article in a fly magazine that included a pattern for a wet fly to imitate a a group. It basically just looks like a milky 'blob' in the water. I've been digging through all my magazines trying to find the pattern for you, but for the life of me I can't find it. I made a mental note to tie some up and give it a shot, but obviously my mental notebook isn't what it used to be. If I come across the article I'll let you know.

Awesome, thanks. I talked to the local fly shop and he was thinking maybe a mini may hatch was what I was seeing. He suggested bwo and zebra midge. Tried the zebra in multiple colors so who knows.

ten_fiver · May 3, 2016

angledangle said:
Awesome, thanks. I talked to the local fly shop and he was thinking maybe a mini may hatch was what I was seeing. He suggested bwo and zebra midge. Tried the zebra in multiple colors so who knows.

:thumbup:

Zebra midges are one of the old standbys I always keep in my box. Hopefully his advice works for you.

angledangle · May 4, 2016

ten_fiver said:
:thumbup:

Zebra midges are one of the old standbys I always keep in my box. Hopefully his advice works for you.

Problem was I forgot the beer. Had tons of midges. No beer. Sometimes we forget the game changer. If the weather holds, tomorrow is another day. Not sure I want to test my ability to conduct electricity. The results could be.......................shocking

Rough day fishing

angledangle

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one last cast

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el jefe

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346xp

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mcnerney

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rsagebrush

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angledangle

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ten_fiver

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angledangle

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el jefe

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tcorfey

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802flyfish

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angledangle

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ten_fiver

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angledangle

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