Recommendations for equipment for the area?

Jaysop

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Hi, I'm recently getting back into fly fishing after about 15 years.

I've been fishing mostly up in Cherokee and Wilson creek and was hoping some locals might be able to lend some advice about what rod weight and length would be appropriate for the area.

The reason I ask is because I'm told the best for a beginner would be a 9ft 5weight but asking a few guys the other day at Wilson creek they said that was overkill.

They werent from the area and actually reccomend this forum to find some people who fish these areas more often.

Sorry if this is the wrong forum to ask this, any help would be appreciated.

Jesse
 

jayr

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My question to is, what type of fly fishing do you plan on doing? Dry, dry dropper, nymph, streamer, etc.?

I fish that area a bit and as a general do it all rod IMHO would be an 8 1/2’ 4 weight. Now having said that, I would change that depending on exactly what type of fly fishing you are interested in.
 

Jaysop

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Honestly I dont really know. As silly as that sounds.

I dont really have a specific purpose in mind. I dont really know enough about the sport to nail that down.

Ideally what I'm looking to do is not buy something that wouldn't be somewhat suitable for the fishing in the area.

What got me into the sport as a teenager was watching fish take dry flies. I guess I lean towards that, but in reality what ever is catching them.

I was actually looking at the 8'6 4wt Orvis Clearwater outfit on clearance from 2018 but wasnt sure if that was to light or to long or short to be a good starting point.
 

jayr

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Honestly I dont really know. As silly as that sounds.

I dont really have a specific purpose in mind. I dont really know enough about the sport to nail that down.

Ideally what I'm looking to do is not buy something that wouldn't be somewhat suitable for the fishing in the area.

What got me into the sport as a teenager was watching fish take dry flies. I guess I lean towards that, but in reality what ever is catching them.

I was actually looking at the 8'6 4wt Orvis Clearwater outfit on clearance from 2018 but wasnt sure if that was to light or to long or short to be a good starting point.
An 8'6" fly rod for that area would be a good all around rod. The Clearwater would certainly work, but also check out the Redington Classic Trout. That rod is a lot of bang for the buck.

As for a reel. About all a reel does for this weight rod, area, etc. is hold line. Don't spend a lot of bucks there as it is pretty much unnecessary. You do not need a really good drag like on bigger waters and heavier rods and bigger fish. Where you will see dividends is buying a good quality line that works well with YOUR rod. Not all lines work well with any given rod.

Next thing to do is to find a hatch chart for the areas you intend to fish, they're lots of them online. NC also has a good web site on their DNR section with lots of good info.

Depending on exactly where you live in NC, there are TONS of great fishing to be had. The Smokies, both Pisgah NF's, Nantahala NF, etc. Also, lots of good tailwaters as well. I fish pretty much all over WNC and it is very good.
 

wthorpe

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I believe the concept of an all around fly rod for trout fishing has evolved over time, something like this: 8' 6wts for bamboo and fiberglass until graphite caught on. Then 9' 5 wts in graphite. But more recently you will see a lot of folks considering an 8.5 or 9' 4 wt to be that rod. But, then on to creek fishing in the southeast.... I actually tend to favor a larger rod, say 8 to 9' in a small river/large creek (think upper Chattooga, upper Nantahala, Davidson), because i like the added reach. Others will prefer shorter rods on the 6 to 8' scale, perhaps in 3 or 4 wts or even lighter, with a lot of preference for 7/7.5' 3 and 4 wts. And even i like those shorter rods in smaller creeks in the southeast with heavy overhead cover. There is no right or wrong here -- just lotsa opportunities to buy a whole lot of rods!!! And, a bit off in the weeds here, but i have recently gotten interested in "vintage" (1950's to say 70's) fiberglass rods, which offer lots of choices in the 7 to 8' range, with 6 and 5 wts often the most realistic choices of line weights -- although some of the so called 6 wts curiously handle a wide range of line sizes from 4 to 7 wts. YMMV.
 

jayr

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I believe the concept of an all around fly rod for trout fishing has evolved over time, something like this: 8' 6wts for bamboo and fiberglass until graphite caught on. Then 9' 5 wts in graphite. But more recently you will see a lot of folks considering an 8.5 or 9' 4 wt to be that rod. But, then on to creek fishing in the southeast.... I actually tend to favor a larger rod, say 8 to 9' in a small river/large creek (think upper Chattooga, upper Nantahala, Davidson), because i like the added reach. Others will prefer shorter rods on the 6 to 8' scale, perhaps in 3 or 4 wts or even lighter, with a lot of preference for 7/7.5' 3 and 4 wts. And even i like those shorter rods in smaller creeks in the southeast with heavy overhead cover. There is no right or wrong here -- just lotsa opportunities to buy a whole lot of rods!!! And, a bit off in the weeds here, but i have recently gotten interested in "vintage" (1950's to say 70's) fiberglass rods, which offer lots of choices in the 7 to 8' range, with 6 and 5 wts often the most realistic choices of line weights -- although some of the so called 6 wts curiously handle a wide range of line sizes from 4 to 7 wts. YMMV.
Well said. I totally agree.

When I first started fly fishing right at 40 years ago, the "ideal" rod for the Smokies was a 7'6" rod around a 5 weight. The weight of the rod was not as important as the length. Line choices were nothing compared to now. Cortland 333 or if you wanted to spend a bit more coin, the 444 Peach. Most rods back then were still glass as graphite was new and quite expensive, rather crude by today's standards too.

Over the last several years longer rods have come into play such as 9 footers up to even 10 foot rods, mostly for nymphing but some do throw dries with them as well. Personally, I have migrated to 8' 6" and longer with a 9' 3 weight being my go to rod. I have found that mending line is much easier to keep out of the current by simply raising my rod as the small streams with lots of current, riffles, etc. will drag the leader and give the fly a very unnatural drift. When the wind does pick up a bit I will opt for a 4 weight and even on occasion pull out the old Smokies favorite, my Far and Fine.
 

Jaysop

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Thank you for all the help.
You guys gave me a lot of info which gave me a good direction to start researching.

I ended up calling the Orvis shop here in Charlotte and talked with a woman who fishes the areas I go and she strongly recommended the 9'5wt considering some of the larger trout up in Cherokee. She suggested that the 5wt would make it easier for new casters as well.

I bit the bullet on the 9'5wt 2019 model Clearwater as my first personally owned rod.

Thanks again for the help. Its incredible how much there is to learn.
 

jeffnc

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In Cherokee, it depends on what rivers you'll fish. The most common are the Oconoluftee and the Raven Fork. Both of these are relatively large for NC, with plenty of room for casting. Some of this water is on Cherokee tribal land, for which you'll need a special permit to fish. You don't need a NC fishing license on this land, nor will the license do you any good.

The reason I mention this tangent is that there are actually 2 types of water, the first is the regular stocked permit water, and the second is the special "trophy" section on the Raven Fork (and small part of Oconoluftee) which is catch and release only. The fish in this section are very large, with lots of fish 20" and over. If you fish here, a 9 ft 5 wt would not be out of place at all. The same rod would still work on the regular stocked sections, although most fish you catch will be in the 11-13" range here, with a few smaller wild fish showing up, or the occasional large fish wandering in from the trophy section. However in this section I'd prefer the 8 1/2' 4 weight.

Actually I usually Euro nymph, where I'm using a 10 1/2' 3 wt rod, but if you're not up on Euro nymphing, you can ignore that for now.

Getting back to more normal NC small stream fly fishing, including some streams in Cherokee such as Soto Creek, Straight Creek, Bunches Creek, etc. the 8 1/2' would probably work. The issue you have in NC is tight overgrown streams with little casting room. My favorite rod for this fishing is a 7 1/2' 4 wt, which IMO is just the right length for fitting in tighter quarters. A longer rod will lead to more snags and tangles. IMO the really short rods though such as 6' is a mistake because for really tight spaces, you need reach more than casting ability, to do little flips and chucks.

Some sections of Wilson Creek are quite open and would take a 9' rod, but there are some tight sections as well. Another area I used to like to fish, and now take my son to, is Stone Mountain park NC. There are a couple tributaries here that are quite small, with East Prong Roaring Fork being the primary. Again there are some sections that work just fine for my 10 1/2' Euro rod. In fact sometimes a longer rod is actually better in tighter quarters for simply reaching and lifting, which is how you end up fishing with nymphs a lot. But for tradtiional casting, it takes up too much room on many places on that stream and again a 7 1/2' is about perfect. But an 8 1/2' will work as well. We used all 3 of these rods at Stone Mountain on our last trip there and each worked where we fished them.

If I could just choose one rod to fish in all of NC, it would probably have to be my 7 1/2' 4 wt because that can get me in anywhere. For example it worked fine for some Shenandoah native brookie streams on our last trip up there, and there are quite a few of these types of streams in NC as well. But honestly I'd be miserable if you told me I couldn't Euro nymph any more with my long rod.
 

jeffnc

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I bit the bullet on the 9'5wt 2019 model Clearwater as my first personally owned rod.
If you continue to fly fish, you'll eventually own another rod or three for various conditions. Personally I think Euro nymphing is an absolute must, but not without using other techniques as well. I think 3 rods will cover just about all trout fishing situations.

- a 9' 5 wt all around standard for all sizes of fish, can cast dries, nymphs and streamers wherever you have room or need some reach
- a 7 1/2' 4 wt or similar for tighter small stream situations without much casting room
- a 10 1/2' 3 wt Euro nymph rod

With those 3, or close, I feel like I can do anything trout-wise.
 

jeffnc

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Oh and by the way, if you have the chance and some extra money, you should seriously consider hiring Michael Bradley to guide you for a day. He's one of the top few competitive fishermen in the US, has traveled the world for international competitions, and he lives and guides right there in Cherokee. Your new fly rod should last you a lifetime, but so will the things you learn from Michael.
 

Jaysop

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If you continue to fly fish, you'll eventually own another rod or three for various conditions. Personally I think Euro nymphing is an absolute must, but not without using other techniques as well. I think 3 rods will cover just about all trout fishing situations.

- a 9' 5 wt all around standard for all sizes of fish, can cast dries, nymphs and streamers wherever you have room or need some reach
- a 7 1/2' 4 wt or similar for tighter small stream situations without much casting room
- a 10 1/2' 3 wt Euro nymph rod

With those 3, or close, I feel like I can do anything trout-wise.
With my limited experience I agree whole heartedly.

So at this point I own a 8'6 5wt Clearwater 2019 outfit and I recently picked up a 7'9 4wt TFO Trout finesse with a battenkill Disc reel. For the waters I've been hitting up and the fish I'm catching the slower action 4wt has been awsome.

Before the fall or probably even next season I'll be looking at a 4wt or 3wt 10' rod for nymphing. I hardly ever really need to false cast and really tend to water pull my casts and highstick when using nymphs anyway so I think that's where I'll end up going.

But once the weather starts to turn ill probably be happier with a good set of waders than with the longer rod. Right now I'm heading up to the mountains to fish tomorrow and my jeep reads 101⁰. I dont mind being in the water now but when it's cold I'll change my tune.
 

jeffnc

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Before the fall or probably even next season I'll be looking at a 4wt or 3wt 10' rod for nymphing. I hardly ever really need to false cast and really tend to water pull my casts and highstick when using nymphs anyway so I think that's where I'll end up going.
Yes that's called water loading and you do more of that kind of thing than "fly line" casting. Orvis makes a Clearwater at 10' 3 wt for $200 that would be a good option (it is not merely a 10' 3 wt rod, it is specifically designed with Euro nymphing in mind.) For a step up a lot of even professional fishermen like the Recon 10' 3 wt as a versatile rod for both Euro nymphing and standard fishing if you need to be adaptable.
European Nymphing Collection | European Nymphing Collection | Fly Fishing -- Orvis
 

NCAndy

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I live in the Smokies and fish daily. I have a yearly Tribal permit and NC license so I can go almost anywhere and do. Here is what I use, though I have about nine rods to choose from. My most used rod on the Ravens Fork on Cherokee Tribal water is a 10' 2wt euro-style rod. As the water drops I might go to a dry/dropper setup with either an 8'6" 3wt or 4wt depending. In the Park itself it is mostly a 3wt, or 2wt, shorter rods in the summer when the canopy hangs low. In the winter I might go to a 4wt but that is rare. I don't specifically nymph much in the Park. Those outfits are used almost everywhere I fish. On the DH sections wading I still use my 3wt or sometimes a 4wt. I never use a 5wt, but that is my preference.

The 3wt I use the most is a Winton B3x 8'6". It punches above its weight and can handle small streamers and light dry/dropper duty, as well as straight dry flies. I've landed fish over 20" on it, it's just a great rod for my needs here. I go even lighter in the summer with a 7'6" Winston B3LS 3wt or an Orvis 2wt Superfine.

I fished the 2wt nymph rod and 3wt Winston B3x 95% of the time from October through May. June through Sept. I go lighter. That's my style though. Hope that helps.

Unless you fish indicator nymphs from a boat the 5wt is just overkill here.
 
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