Bait Question for GSMNP

[xvigauge]

I was going through one of my tackle boxes today and noticed I had several packs of chartreuse/green plastic baits (worms, grubs, etc.). I thought that a one inch piece of the worm threaded on a hook does a great job of emulating the "Green Weenie" nymph that is so popular in the Smokies. It should also cast well on a fly rod. Just wondering if these would be legal in the Park. Anyone know?
Joe

 

[jayr]

Single hook and artificial, it's legal.

 

[flytie09]

You gotta be kidding me...... is a rubber worm legal? Is this a fly fishing forum or a bs question random generator. Come on guys..... have a little common sense.

ft09

 

[xvigauge]

You gotta be kidding me...... is a rubber worm legal? Is this a fly fishing forum or a bs question random generator. Come on guys..... have a little common sense.

ft09

Chill out man. This was more of a question about fishing in the Smokies. Yet, it IS still a fly fishing question. Maybe I should have given a little more information. My intention was to NOT use a plastic worm, but only about 1 inch of it on a # 8 or # 10 hook. The plan is to use it as a nymph on a fly rod. The Green Weenie nymph so popular in the Smokies imitates a green terrestrial worm. I would think this nymph made with either chenille or plastic should not make a difference as far as the law goes, but who knows? The law is so fussy about some things. The chartreuse plastic looks a lot more like the real worm than the chenille does, hence my concern. I hope this clears it up.
Joe

 

[flytie09]

No. It clears it up.... but it is a wacky question to pose on the largest fly fishing website out there. Noone here (I hope) will give you the blessing to cut off a hunk of green rubber worm to simulate a greenie weenie. I don't care if it's in NC, PA or Mars. It's a gulp worm...... no matter how you try to slice, dice or cross your eyes and think about it.

I'm not trying to be rude.... but that's the reality. Now... if you want a fly tying recipe on a greenie weenie... then that's a different story.

ft09

 

[xvigauge]

No. It clears it up.... but it is a wacky question to pose on the largest fly fishing website out there. Noone here (I hope) will give you the blessing to cut off a hunk of green rubber worm to simulate a greenie weenie. I don't care if it's in NC, PA or Mars. It's a gulp worm...... no matter how you try to slice, dice or cross your eyes and think about it.

I'm not trying to be rude.... but that's the reality. Now... if you want a fly tying recipe on a greenie weenie... then that's a different story.

ft09

With all due respects sir, you are being rude. I was asking an innocent question because this IS "the largest fly fishing website out there." I am not trying to upset the whole fly fishing world. I don't think you are a moderator as a moderator would have been a little more civil in his/her reply. If a moderator suggests that this is not an appropriate question, that's fine. But such a response from a regular member who is trying to police the whole forum for the good of the world is a little inappropriate. Now, how about posting your recipe for the green weenie worm nymph, please, and we'll all be done here.
Joe

 

[flytie09]

Here you go:

Thread - Uni 8/0 fluorescent green
Hook - Size 10, 2x L Nymph - Mustad 9671
Body - Fluorescent Green Ultra Chenille

You're right.... I'm not a moderator. I'm a regular old fly fisherman. I'm trying to enlighten a regular Joe that their post is inappropriate for a fly fishing forum. If you expect only a moderator to set you straight on this fact.... then you're mistaken.

If I was a little curt for your sensitivity level.... then I apologize. But the general message is still the same. It's legal, yes, but as a fly no.

A sour apple gummy worm is legal? Does it have any place on a fly fishing forum? No... but my daughter sure would gobble one up.

F-O-R-E!

ft09

 

[xvigauge]

Here you go:

Thread - Uni 8/0 fluorescent green thread
Hook - Size 10, 2x L - Mustad 9671
Body - Fluorescent Green Ultra Chenille

You're right.... I'm not a moderator.



ft09

Thanks for the recipe.
Joe

 

[flytie09]

You're welcome Joe. I'm sorry for being a d-bag. I'm just trying to help you out man. This is a great site full of the top fly fisherman out there. You won't find a more diverse and skilled group. Anywhere.

I just happened to stumble on your question. If you were sincere in your request... I am equally honest in my response.

Best wishes and good luck.

If I'm wrong and you're still upset... well maybe we'll trade stories on our weenies some day.

ft09

 

[xvigauge]

No problem ft09. I understand that pink weenies also work well on trout in the Smokies. I am moving permanently to the Townsend area of the Smokies in September. For years I really loved fly fishing in the salt grass flats in the Tampa Bay and Sarasota areas. As I have gotten older, I have found that fly fishing in the salt was getting really trying on me. After spending some time in the Smokies, I have decided to move there. The fish may be smaller, but the allure of fresh water trout on a fly is worth it. I am now much better suited to cast my 3 and 4 weight bamboo rods than my 8 and 9 weight glass rods. I can still wade, but now, just a little at a time. I can no longer stand for hours in the salt flats and not be able to take a sit down break. Plus the mountain shade is a little more pleasant than the constant blistering Florida sun. Best of luck to you and I will let you know how the green weenies work out.
Joe

 

[denver1911]

Not that it matters, but you have my blessing. I am going to, heaven forbid, use baitcasting tackle on Tuesday for smallmouth. Fly gear later this month for permit. And whatever green weenies work best when I visit the Smokies in a couple of weeks. Do what you want. Have fun.

 

[flytie09]

Joe,

Here's a hatch chart to tie up the weenies and other bugs you might encounter. You made a good choice. It's a beautiful area. I'm in SW Va myself.... so I can relate.

Hatch Chart for Fly Fishing Great Smoky Mountains National Park

ft09

 

[xvigauge]

Hey ft09, thanks for the chart. Very educational. I appreciate it.
Joe

 

[Rip Tide]

No. It clears it up.... but it is a wacky question to pose on the largest fly fishing website out there. Noone here (I hope) will give you the blessing to cut off a hunk of green rubber worm to simulate a greenie weenie. I don't care if it's in NC, PA or Mars. It's a gulp worm...... no matter how you try to slice, dice or cross your eyes and think about it.

the clay mantis: the unacceptable creature... is it a fly?

What does it take for a fly to be considered a fly? one that allow us to "fly fish" with a clear conscience and call ourselves fly fishers. most (though not all) will rule out the use of bait or scents. after that, though, the rules get less clear as we delve deeper into the grey areas. does a fly just have to be "tied" to be a fly? must it use all natural materials like feathers, hairs, and furs? does it have to have at least some natural materials or can it be totally made of synthetics? if it can be made using synthetic materials, does that include any synthetic material? does a fly have to be unweighted or is a little weight "allowed"? if so, how much?

we all must make our own decisions about what we consider to be acceptable to be tied to the end of our tippets. that is the beauty of an individual sport like fly fishing (and living in a free country like america)... you can do whatever you want.

 

[Ard]

Most states that have "fly fishing only" waters also have distinct regulations for those waters. Within the regulations many (perhaps not all) make reference to the use of plastic or molded facsimiles of naturally occurring baits or insects. Hope that helps.

 

[flytie09]

Listen many of us started out with a fly rod and a garden worm or grasshopper. I didn't have the illusion it was fly fishing. I was bait fishing with a fly rod. The same with using an egg sucking leech with a spinning rod, I again didn't imagine I was fly fishing. It's up to everyone's definition... I'm not the fly fishing judge here..... do whatever you want. I could care less.... but understand the method you're using.

Some of the Bass lures (flies) out there leave one questioning is this truly a fly? Mister twister tails, lure blades and such.

Do as you wish... if you close your eyes tight anything can be a fly. Even a hot glue egg. That's a story for another day.

Fish on!

ft09

 

[silver creek]

Before everyone gets too excited, I have to tell a true story about my first trip to the San Juan River:

The flies do not have to be anything special. During my first trip to the San Juan, I was in the Texas Hole fishing next to a fly fisher from Albuquerque. He was catching fish and clearly the best of all the fly fishers fishing that pool.

He had a basic wader and a very basic fly rod and reel. When he left for lunch, I asked to see his fly. It was a bare hook with a strip of natural chamois knotted to the hook. The knot imitated the clitellum, or thicken egg sac ring of the worm. Wet chamois is soft and compliant and wiggles like a real worm. It is to the San Juan Worm what marabou is to the wooly bugger.

Here's the more realistic version of the chamois worm. Do not be fooled by the stiff appearance of the fly. When wet, the chamois feels a lot more like a real worm.

Tying the Chamois Worm Fly - YouTube



What I learned that day was despite the fact that my waders were high tech, and I had the latest and best Sage Rod (the RPL back then), that fellow was the better fly fisher.

A section of a green plastic worm on a hook is a basic green squirmy wormy except that it will be less effective compared to a proper sized squirmy wormy. And how often had we said it is not the fly but the fly fisher?

Squirmy Wormy

 

[flytie09]

Well I'll be a monkeys uncle. If Dave Hise is slinging these babies..... then I'll hush my mouth. At least tie it to the hook I guess..... globbing it on like a nightcrawler surely isnt a fly right? RIGHT?

You guys suck.

ft09

 

[triggw]

Hey, congrats to both of you guys for moving the discussion in an adult-like manner into a civil and mutually beneficial exchange. Good job!

 

[flytie09]

28 second tutorial - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0e2z8JrXnw. I think that's a record.

Even has it's own facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/Squirmito-The-Original-Squiggly-Worm-224137220970872/.

You guys are savages. Theodore Gordon is rolling in his grave.

ft09