Need advice - Line for short spey/switch for Atlantics

[viggysmalls]

Hi all,
I've been swinging flies for Atlantic salmon with my 13' spey rod for a few years now, and I absolutely love it. I bought a Rio Scandi Versitip system, and it has worked very well, although I admit I don't have much experience with anything else.

While I love the 13' spey for some of the bigger rivers, but some of the spots I fish are fairly small with intimate, short little pools and runs, and little back casting room. Sometimes casts are definitely under 40'. I find the 13' rod, even with the relatively short Scandi tip (which is a bit over 30' length I believe) a bit too much for some of the in-tight work and short casts and swings. I've been looking at some small spey and switch rods (11' or less), but am having trouble trying to figure out which lines I should be thinking about.

I'm swinging flies 90% of the time, but do occasionally throw on a bomber for a dead drift (although if I'll be dry fly fishing all day, I use a single hand rod). I fish anything from small hairwings with little weight, to big fluffy marabous, or somewhat chunky bombers. If the water is low, I usually use a floating leader or sometimes an intermediate sinking polyleader. If the water is higher, I may throw on a 2-7 ips sinking polyleader.

I like the idea of some of the shorter Skagit type heads, but I worry these will not be ideal for Atlantic Salmon. Can you still have a relatively "delicate" presentation with a Skagit line (not only for the fish, but to ensure those I may be rotating the pool with do not think ill of me)? Is there any in-between that would still allow me to cast in pretty tight quarters?

It would be much appreciated if someone could point me to some potential lines that might work for this application, or at least explain the type of tapper I might want to be looking for.

Thanks!

[flav]

I like a 27 to 32 foot long scandi on my switches, but if you want a shorter head they are available. Check out the airflo switch float and the royal wulff ambush. Both are integrated lines with scandi-like tapers that are much shorter than a standard scandi head. The issue with the airflo is it's only available in lower line weights. The issue with the wulff line is that it's rated for single hand, so some folks have trouble figuring out what line they need for a 2 hander.

[Ard]

I would look at Scandi Short lines, matter of fact I'd contact Steve Godshall at the RB Meiser Rod Shop and give him the specific rod and use info and have him send me a perfect match. That's who I get my lines from, they range from lines for my 9 1/2 foot Orvis Light Salmon 8 weight through the 15 foot rods. Unless you have forum the heads you are using fulfill your sense of precision maybe google Streamer Fishing Techniques by Ard Stetts there's a video there that may be helpful to you.

[huronfly]

Sounds like the perfect scenario for using the Airflo Rage line. Its basically in between a Skagit and Scandi at 30'. I like this line because you can throw bigger flies than a Scandi but is more delicate than a Skagit head with tungsten tips. I like to use salmon steelhead polyleaders from floating to extra super fast sinking. The wulff line is also great if a 30' head is still too long.

[viggysmalls]

Thanks for the advice. Definitely some good suggestions. I may look into getting a custom line, as you suggested Ard. That option had not crossed my mind. And I will definitely check out the video.

As for "over the counter" options, I think these three are on my short list for the time being:

- Rio Scandi Body (https://www.rioproducts.com/products...ds/scandi-body)
- Airflo Rage Compact (Rage Compact | Airflo USA)
- Wulff Ambush (Ambush(R) Fly Line - Royal Wulff)

I was leaning towards the Ambush, but after reading about the Rage, it does sound like it could be a good fit. I haven't heard much about the rio line, but it seems to be similar to the rage and ambush, but even shorter.

[viggysmalls]

I've got another slightly off topic, but related question: When deciding on spey line weight, do you add the weight of the sink tip/polyleader to the weight of the head and match that overall weight (i.e. weight of head + leader) to the road?

For instance, if we take the example of the Echo SR 71010, Echo and Rio both seem to suggest a grain weight of around 420-430. I would usually be attaching a polyleader to whatever head I am using. Say the poly leader is around 100gr, should I be looking at heads with around 320-330gr for a total weight of 420-430, or do I look for heads with a weight of 420-430, which would make the whole system around 520-530gr with leader attached?

I must admit, this spey line stuff can get confusing...

[flav]

I've got another slightly off topic, but related question: When deciding on spey line weight, do you add the weight of the sink tip/polyleader to the weight of the head and match that overall weight (i.e. weight of head + leader) to the road?

Don't include the weight of the poly or tip when you're chosing a new head. It's the head that you're casting, the tip is just along for the ride.

My first thought when I read your post was that a rage would fit the bill, but at 30 feet It's longer than you were talking about. I also though about Steve Godshall, I have had him make me several lines that are all really nice, but many folks shy away from lines that aren't from the major manufacturers. The nice thing about Steve is he will talk to you and figure out what you want to do, factor in what rod you have, and then make a line of the taper, length, and weight that will pair with your setup.

[flytie09]

All good suggestions. Check out the Beulah Elixir switch/spey lines. They are basically a compact Scandi line. I picked one up while in Portland last year and it cast well. Can handle larger flies fine...... except big bunny leeches and larger intruders.

Much more delicate presentation than a Skagit.

I like the Rage series of lines also. These are hybrid Scandi/Skagit lines. They are a very versatile tool. If you want to poke around the UK fly shops or Ebay-UK.....you can find the Rage Intermediate lines. There's a Hover and a Hover Intermediate. These sinking lines are great for high water events or swinging deeper runs. Not available for whatever reason in US fly shops.

Airflo Rage Compact Shooting Head – Glasgow Angling Centre

A product review from Hatch Magazine when the Rage Int. lines were introduced in 2012.

Airflo Releases New Skagit Intermediate Compact | Hatch Magazine - Fly Fishing, etc.

Funny where they were touted as being designed with Great Lake Steelheaders in mind....... try to find one.

[Ard]

Not to further confuse the issue but.......... Another line I've found useful for spey casting is the RIO Outbound which is essentially a Scandi line. I like the Long versions at 37 feet of head with integrated running lines. They also make a Short but I can't quote head length on those. They are rater for single hand but also list grain weights. For my old light salmon a 325 - 350 is good.

[zonk1085]

I like the Rio Scandi Short (31') along with the Airflo Rage (28') others have mentioned. I prefer the Rio Scandi Short for touch and go casting and the Rage for sustained anchor, but have found both lines to be very versatile.

You may also want to check the Rio Single Hand Spey line. I use it on a 9'6" 8 weight on the Gaspe as a compliment to my longer spey rods. Does a great job both with single hand spey casts for swinging flies and throwing bombers while overhand casting. This outfit has replaced my switch rods on Atlantic Salmon trips.