Budget Nymphing Rod for OPST Commando Heads??

[kaisirs]

Hey guys, I was looking around for a fast action 10ft+ 3wt rod for my 150grain OPST commando head. I'd be using this rod for ponds and lakes where I need the extra distance. I would be converting this rod into a two hander, making it a trout spey rod.

I've been looking around and it seems to me that the only rods that are 3wt and that are 10ft+ are european nymphing rods. I do understand that these have a fast action but a soft tip. From what I'm reading, it appears that soft tips are no desirable for skagit casting and that a rod with a stiffer tip that flexes down lower would perform better. However, it really does appear that this is the only option for me if I'm trying to get a trout spey rig for less than $200.

Right now, I'm looking at:

Cabela's 3wt 10' CZN Rod $120

Fenwick's 3wt 10' AETOs $200


TL;DR
What do you guys think of Skagit Casting with OPST heads on Czech Nymphing rods as an alternative to the pricier trout spey rigs? I'm trying to get a rod for less than $200.

 

[el jefe]

It is not less than $200, but Redington makes their Hydrogen series in a trout spey version, in a 3113-4 configuration, at $349. I have heard of folks using their trout spey rods to Euro nymph, which suggests some crossover between the two types of rods. I don't know if it's more sensible to use a trout spey rod to Euro nymph, or a Euro nymph rod to employ spey techniques. Perhaps someone more well versed in the topic can chime in, as I am interested in the topic, too.

 

[huronfly]

Fine Fly Fishing Tackle - Graphite And Bamboo Blanks - From The Angler's Roost

You're welcome

 

[kaisirs]

It is not less than $200, but Redington makes their Hydrogen series in a trout spey version, in a 3113-4 configuration, at $349. I have heard of folks using their trout spey rods to Euro nymph, which suggests some crossover between the two types of rods. I don't know if it's more sensible to use a trout spey rod to Euro nymph, or a Euro nymph rod to employ spey techniques. Perhaps someone more well versed in the topic can chime in, as I am interested in the topic, too.

The hydrogen is my dream rod, but unfortunately, I only have about 200 dollars to throw at this rod... although if I end up not finding anything though I may resort to buying it.

I do have a question for you all though. Are all single handed fly rods over 9'6" considered nymphing rods? Or are they just very long single handed fly rods? Take the Fenwick Aetos for instance- that rod line has head great reviews as a single handed regular fly rod, but what about their 10' 3wt? Is it a fly rod with a regular taper, or does it have a taper specialized for nymphing?

Now here lies the root of my question... What are the differences between a EuroNymph rod's taper and a Trout Spey rod's taper? If anyone can answer this that would be great!.

 

[el jefe]

Now here lies the root of my question... What are the differences between a EuroNymph rod's taper and a Trout Spey rod's taper? If anyone can answer this that would be great!

Free bump for you, since you put the question so well, and I hope to understand that, too.

 

[kaisirs]

Fine Fly Fishing Tackle - Graphite And Bamboo Blanks - From The Angler's Roost

You're welcome

I did see that, the 11' 2/3wt was tempting, but I already have a moderate action rod and was looking for something with a little more backbone so I can cut through the wind more easily. Still a contender though, thats for sure!

10 points for whoever can figure out the taper differences between a EuroNymoh rod and a Trout spey rod!

 

[dean_mt]

If I wanted a decent rod and had $200 to spend I would be spending some quality time at online classifieds. Use search tempest to scour Craiglist out of your area and the speypages dot com has a very active classified section. I got my 119 4 wt Decho spey, reel, running line and a head for right around $275 on the SP, I don't remember exactly. You should be able to find a decent used spey or switch rod in your budget.

 

[nevadanstig]

I would NOT try to convert a nymphing rod to a spey rod. Completely different galaxies. Most nymph rods will be nice and soft up top to protect those long leaders and tippets. I dont see that as working out well translated to launching a two handed rig.

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[Bigfly]

Stig is right on....
Although I sneak out a spey cast on my 11ft 3wt ESN, (two fingers on butt) and I have nymphed with my 11ft switch.....
But I would not ask either rod to perform well, doing something they weren't designed for.....
Get a side job.....Spend the money...
Buy a tack hammer to hang a picture, and a sledge for rock......
I don't think a shooting head is a good idea on a soft light rod.

Jim

 

[kaisirs]

I would NOT try to convert a nymphing rod to a spey rod. Completely different galaxies. Most nymph rods will be nice and soft up top to protect those long leaders and tippets. I dont see that as working out well translated to launching a two handed rig.

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Look at this video by OPST: YouTube

Ben Paul is using Redington's 3wt 10ft Hydrogen rod. On the Redington's website, it says that the 10ft model is a Euro Nymphing Rod, yet the guys at OPST seem to be very happy with the rod. So clearly, there is some crossover if the guys at OPST are happily using a 3wt 10ft nymphing rod on their own heads.

Stig is right on....
Although I sneak out a spey cast on my 11ft 3wt ESN, (two fingers on butt) and I have nymphed with my 11ft switch.....
But I would not ask either rod to perform well, doing something they weren't designed for.....
Get a side job.....Spend the money...
Buy a tack hammer to hang a picture, and a sledge for rock......
I don't think a shooting head is a good idea on a soft light rod.

Jim

Here's the thing- I'm looking to have a switch rod that is a TRUE 3wt. Trout spey rods such as the hydrogen are rated as a 2wt but play like a 5wt single handed rod. Right now, there is no rod that really fills the need for a true 3wt spey rod aside from angler's roost, but I'm looking for something more along the lines of moderate fast as I have plenty of moderate action rods. I also prefer a faster action rod as I need something to punch through the wind better, and a faster action will give me a tighter loop.

You say that the rods are not designed for this, but the OPST guys use single handed nymphing rods when fishing bigger waters and there are positive reviews on it. However, the rods that they are using are too expensive for a student like me.

 

[ddb]

Pursuit of an affordable 3wt that does both euro nymphing and trout spey work with Skagit lines is likely to founder on the rocks.

Euronymping needs fast action rods for quick hooksets in close, if not off your shoe tops. Skagit casting can be mastered with a fast action rod but the fast timing is critical and likely to prove very hard -- even frustrating and somewhat risky for a newly initiated caster to master.

Longer and slower -- but not noodle-like limp -- moderate actions of higher quality blanks work efficiently to transfer energy in slowed down Skagit casting rythyms that are forgiving and easy to learn rather quickly. But affordable moderate to slow action rods with adequate power in the butt and mid sections are scarce as fast actions have been the standard in recent times.

Slower rods tend to be less satisfactory in hooking fish during direct lining nymphs as the set response is slower.

good luck,
ddb

 

[kaisirs]

Pursuit of an affordable 3wt that does both euro nymphing and trout spey work with Skagit lines is likely to founder on the rocks.

Euronymping needs fast action rods for quick hooksets in close, if not off your shoe tops. Skagit casting can be mastered with a fast action rod but the fast timing is critical and likely to prove very hard -- even frustrating and somewhat risky for a newly initiated caster to master.

Longer and slower -- but not noodle-like limp -- moderate actions of higher quality blanks work efficiently to transfer energy in slowed down Skagit casting rythyms that are forgiving and easy to learn rather quickly. But affordable moderate to slow action rods with adequate power in the butt and mid sections are scarce as fast actions have been the standard in recent times.

Slower rods tend to be less satisfactory in hooking fish during direct lining nymphs as the set response is slower.

good luck,
ddb

Thank you, your post confirms all my thoughts on the differences between a nymphing rods and 2handed rods.

In the Redington Hydrogen's case [as seen in my previous post on this thread], do you think the main reason why it was positively reviewed as a skagit rod by the OPST guys was because it was moderate action?

And in the Fenwick Aeto's case, the rod line doesn't say that there is a nymphing rod in the collection. Would that mean that the 3wt 10' model has a normal taper, or is it safe to say that all 10ft single handed fly rods have a czech nymph taper?

 

[el jefe]

Look at this video by OPST: YouTube

That was frickin' cool!! I just had my eyes opened...a lot.

 

[ddb]

The Hydrogen was designed and built as a spey rod by guys who know the demands of the that style of casting. Given the proximity to OPST I'd bet they had a say in the project from the start. My 3 wt zings the OPST lines out there.

No idea about the Fenwick blank.

ddb

 

[kaisirs]

The Hydrogen was designed and built as a spey rod by guys who know the demands of the that style of casting. Given the proximity to OPST I'd bet they had a say in the project from the start. My 3 wt zings the OPST lines out there.

No idea about the Fenwick blank.

ddb

The Hydrogen Trout Spey was clearly designed as a spey rod, but I'm talking about their singled handed rods. If you watched the video, Ben was using their 10ft 3wt Euro Nymph model, which leads me to believe that it has a different taper as it seems that these two styles of casting have different needs.

 

[el jefe]

Thank you, your post confirms all my thoughts on the differences between a nymphing rods and 2handed rods.

In the Redington Hydrogen's case [as seen in my previous post on this thread], do you think the main reason why it was positively reviewed as a skagit rod by the OPST guys was because it was moderate action?

And in the Fenwick Aeto's case, the rod line doesn't say that there is a nymphing rod in the collection. Would that mean that the 3wt 10' model has a normal taper, or is it safe to say that all 10ft single handed fly rods have a czech nymph taper?

The Hydrogen was designed and built as a spey rod by guys who know the demands of the that style of casting. Given the proximity to OPST I'd bet they had a say in the project from the start. My 3 wt zings the OPST lines out there.

No idea about the Fenwick blank.

ddb

I doubt the Hydrogen 3100 was designed with anything Skagit in mind, since it is a Euro nymph rod. I ended up watching some more OPST videos after the Youtube video referenced earlier in this thread, and Ben Paul does the same thing with a 476 Redington Butterstick glass rod, a 376 graphite rod of some sort, and other trout rods. The common thread (bad pun intended) is the line.

A conclusion I now take away from watching the videos is that you sure can do SHS stuff with a Euro nymph rod. What I still want to know is if you can Euro nymph with a trout spey rod. With the OPST Commando system, it looks like you can turn any single hand rod into a spey casting machine that will fish streamers, nymphs, and dries.

 

[Bigfly]

I feel for you as a student....funds are tough in school...
My policy for gear is to save and buy the tool, not make do.
Although I use my rods in ways they were not designed for, expirience shows best performance is on a designated task.
I fish many kinds of water, but am having trouble seeing where I would use a real 2wt spey.
A big stick for little fish?
Generally I don't want a longer rod till I chase Walter....and professionally, I don't like big fish on a light stick....
I have an older Sage 99 nymphing rod that will do small spey tricks pretty well......but does not have the range due to it's length.
Good luck on the search....

Jim

 

[nevadanstig]

I dont know how stuck you are on a 3wt specifically, but MHX has a fast action, 11' 4wt fast switch/spey blank for $160ish:
MHX FSW114-4 Switch Rod Blank | mudhole.com
Get the rest of the materials on sale and/or from the closeout sections, and you can build it for right around your budget.
One thing I can promise you is youll gain a whole new level of satisfaction fishing something you built vs something you bought!

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[ddb]

The OPST videos feature guys with scads of casting skills and experience that allow them to easily do versatile things the average guy -- much less an initiate -- will only find frustratingly difficult. I strongly believe that the resultng expectation gap is behind many of the trout spey rods seen up for resale with very little actual time on the water.

By the way, used Hydrogens do pop up at very affordable prices....even close to your price point.

ddb

 

[dean_mt]

The OPST guys are changing the game, quickly. If I had a spare spool for the reel that use on my 5wt XP, I would line it with a Lazer line and use my 225 gr OPST Commando.

Even without a short shooting head, and with minimal spey casting experience, I can manage to toss single hand spey casts with my trout rods. I actually think that SHS is a bit easier than with a spey rod...if you are an experienced fly caster that is.