What is different between an 11' fly rod blank and an 11' spey / switch rod blank , if any ?
TIA .
Ron
TIA .
Ron
Is there really a difference ?
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Lewis Chessman
Well-known member
Ignoring the line rating of the respective rods, the ''11' fly rod blank'' will be designed as a single-handed rod and possibly tapered/manufactured for a specific function like Euro-nymphing or loch-style drifting. It will most likely be fitted with a short fighting butt to take the weight off the wrist during the play and work well with a standard DT or WF line of the correct weight.
The Switch and Spey rods will be double-handed, with the Spey being designed to roll cast (Spey, Circle C, etc.) a long-bellied line or Spey shooting head, the Switch designed to both roll and overhead cast similar lines as circumstances demand.
Hope that helps.
The Switch and Spey rods will be double-handed, with the Spey being designed to roll cast (Spey, Circle C, etc.) a long-bellied line or Spey shooting head, the Switch designed to both roll and overhead cast similar lines as circumstances demand.
Hope that helps.
There definitely is a difference in the way they flex. A few years ago, when the switch rod craze started, many blanks offered were basically longer versions of the manufacturer's single handed rods. That has changed, and you can now find a lot of 11 foot blanks with sweet two hand casting actions, just like you can find 11 foot blanks with action better suited to tight line nymphing. Not that you can't use a nymphing blank for a two hander, or vice versa, you can, but the rod action may be less than optimal for your intended use.
ryc72
Well-known member
When I spoke with Tom larimer last year he was saying that when you are looking at switch rods you had to consider if you want it to be more of an over head rod or a 2 handed sustained anchor rod as the actions are different and that every switch rod will be more of one than the other.
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Unknownflyman
Well-known member
What the guys said, yes agreement, big differences, size, use, application. There is no direct equivalency from single to switch and generally longer single hand rods over nine feet are nymphing drift rods.
I removed this content because it was a personal opinion and contributed nothing to the discussion.
Sorry
Sorry
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I have an 3110 Sage , that's 3 wt at 11 feet and if Sage calls it a "switch" I don't really know , think they just say "Trout Spey" but I can tell you with 100% confidence it absolutely sucks as a SH which was never my intent. It does however cast exactly as my 7136 , just with a lighter load , less power and not as much distance. Is it the same bank as the ESN 3110 ? I thought it might be, the ESN does kind of cast the same line/head but it is a different blank....the sections are not interchangeable and needless to say, no lower handle.
(I have both , ESN 3110 an One Trout Spey 3110)
No feathers ruffled here Ard
and I bet if you were back in PA and we fished a decent size river together we would be at a shop getting you into a Trout Spey before we even stopped for lunch
(I have both , ESN 3110 an One Trout Spey 3110)
No feathers ruffled here Ard
and I bet if you were back in PA and we fished a decent size river together we would be at a shop getting you into a Trout Spey before we even stopped for lunch
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My disagreeing with Ard is like a 90lb weakling picking a fight in a bar frequented by Navy SEALS, but here goes. He knows much more than I will ever know about Spey casting and fishing. As a relative beginner to Spey casting, for the past year I have used my 11 ft 4wt Winston BIII TH Microspey for trout and smallmouth in Ohio and Pennsylvania and for some lake largemouth. Some of the spots I fish are plenty wide and benefit from the distances I can cover with my Winston MS. Of course, many spots I fish can be covered just as well with a 9 ft or 9.5 foot singlehander or my 10 ft. 7 wt singlehander. Here's the thing. I LIKE two handed swinging for my targeted species even though nymphing or conventional streamer fishing or single handed spey would certainly work too. Most of the trout I catch on my two hander are in the 12" to 18" range, with a few 20" trout every now and then. The smallmouth are usually modest, though lake run smallies in the Spring can be big. When I tied into a stray 8 lb steelhead this year in an Ohio Lake Erie trib which is not known for steelhead, the rod made quick work of playing that hen. I landed her very quickly with a rapid, gentle, "keep em' wet" release. The Winston 11 ft. 4 wt. Microspey rod takes a satisfying bend on all the fish I catch. The "feel" of fighting the fish, that of feeling head shakes and watching the rod tip respond to fish jumps and runs is there in the proper scale. I own a 7 wt. 11 ft. Helios switch (original one) which I almost never use for anything less than steelhead because the trout and smallmouth available to me simply don't put an appreciable bend in that rod. It would be like hauling them out with a broomstick. If I lived where steelhead or salmon or Alaska-scale trout were the daily target fish of choice the rod choice would differ. If I decide to fish the Lake Erie smallies from a boat, I'll probably bring the Helios 11 ft 7 weight switch. I do not feel that I am unduly "torturing" fish by playing them with the 4 wt. Microspey. I play them fast and use strong tippet, getting them to hand just as quickly or even faster than with my singlehanders. Yes, fishing is a blood sport, but I do all I can to minimize impact on the fish, never fish in borderline water temps no matter how far I drove to fish, and use barbless hooks which are as small as possible. Often the hook pops out right away in the net. My 4 wt Winston MS is analogous to a 7 wt singlehander, a weight no one would describe as undergunned for my intended target species. Please explain where am I wrong. I ask with respect for the depth and breadth of knowledge possessed by Ard and other experienced Spey casters on this forum.
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troutman75
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Ard - Granted that I believe marketing does play a big part, I think the trout spey thing is pretty much about fishing the same flies and tippet as with your 6 1/2 foot grass rod, just with different technique. (The lighest rod I own that I spey cast is a 7wt, so I’m not exactly an authority on the subject)
A few years ago I grabbed the wrong tube and spent a not so cool day slinging small dry flies on 6x tippet on a 7wt (one hander). My presentations were not very accurate, I broke off way more fish than I’d like to remember and I did not haul them in any faster than I would have with my 4wt.
As long as the tippet/knot/hook is the weakest link I don’t fully buy in to the bigger is better line of thinking.
But I did live up in your part of the woods a long time ago and by the standards of what swam in those creeks, and what flies were usually on the end of the leader, your reasoning makes perfect sense.
A few years ago I grabbed the wrong tube and spent a not so cool day slinging small dry flies on 6x tippet on a 7wt (one hander). My presentations were not very accurate, I broke off way more fish than I’d like to remember and I did not haul them in any faster than I would have with my 4wt.
As long as the tippet/knot/hook is the weakest link I don’t fully buy in to the bigger is better line of thinking.
But I did live up in your part of the woods a long time ago and by the standards of what swam in those creeks, and what flies were usually on the end of the leader, your reasoning makes perfect sense.
Unknownflyman
Well-known member
Three and four weight switch rods can land very large fish if they have some backbone. I have the pictures to prove it but I’m not suggesting they are Steelhead and salmon rods as most are used for trout or other species.
The original poster did not say what weight or application the 11’ rod was so I don’t understand the rant really.
I could totally see swinging large western rivers for large browns, rainbows and cutts.
A four weight switch would work pretty well for that.
I don’t see any marketing hype smaller two handed rods for smaller fish, lighter, better presentation, light, easier casting, less tiring and fatigue for casting long, I really don’t see a downside here.
I agree on playing fish reasonably fast and that can be done on smaller switch rods, as good if not better than single hand rods.
The original poster did not say what weight or application the 11’ rod was so I don’t understand the rant really.
I could totally see swinging large western rivers for large browns, rainbows and cutts.
A four weight switch would work pretty well for that.
I don’t see any marketing hype smaller two handed rods for smaller fish, lighter, better presentation, light, easier casting, less tiring and fatigue for casting long, I really don’t see a downside here.
I agree on playing fish reasonably fast and that can be done on smaller switch rods, as good if not better than single hand rods.
Ard,
I don't understand your rant and it is uncalled for . It has taken MY thread way off course . Please delete it . Thanks .
I don't understand your rant and it is uncalled for . It has taken MY thread way off course . Please delete it . Thanks .
Bigfly
Well-known member
Ard, just go fish......... and rant away my friend, you get to fish anyway you want!
But, we are dangerously near declarations of what is supposed to be........and to hell with that.
I fish an 11ft switch a lot for flows over 300cfs and fish 20-30" 1 or 2 handed, and my 3 wt under those flows and size...
One is a not a full spey grip, but I throw all the casts anyway. (The switch) (The Spey is too big for our water, and a single hand is too much work and has limited range by comparison.)
And, I throw spey casts on the 3wt as well, without the full two handed grip. But then I'm probably not sporting full mitts like you. A strange joy grips me when I throw a snap-T with a dry fly on my 3wt ESN.....I think it's called FREEDOM!
The worst part of fly fishing for me has been working through all the stuff that the Brits dumped on us, and East Coasters adopted..
7'6 Boo for instance.....with a dry or Spider.......
Took me twenty years to break through that BS. I felt constrained and limited by their approach. But then I realized that my water and fish are different, and so is my culture (West coast Anarchic).
Same for the experts in this country for that matter, some folks like rules or guidelines, and some of us think on our own and experiment. There is room for both approaches.......
There were only two of us 13yrs ago on the Truckee sporting a switch rod....now it seems most all do it (except the guys who have chosen their way, and that's it.....sounds familiar...)
The last thing I will do at this point, is let folks tell me the limitations of the gear I use (My rant.). I don't have the privilege of fishing back east, so perhaps I am more easily free of local cultural bias. But for bigger fish, and flows I want a bigger stick. I too don't believe in dancing for longer periods of time with a fish for fun. There is blood sport, and then there is callous behavior.....
I am constantly converting old guys to new sticks and ways of getting the job done. I come close to selling one switch rod a week to guys who have a breakthrough because of their perceived limitations.......some from reading stuff on-line.
When you first start sailing, you may follow the course others have sailed......later, you may set your own course more readily, either way, you are sailing. Some folks set a course no one has set and get extra joy...
And jangles, there IS a difference, chill a little too..........rants are good for the spleen. Mine feels better....
Jim
But, we are dangerously near declarations of what is supposed to be........and to hell with that.
I fish an 11ft switch a lot for flows over 300cfs and fish 20-30" 1 or 2 handed, and my 3 wt under those flows and size...
One is a not a full spey grip, but I throw all the casts anyway. (The switch) (The Spey is too big for our water, and a single hand is too much work and has limited range by comparison.)
And, I throw spey casts on the 3wt as well, without the full two handed grip. But then I'm probably not sporting full mitts like you. A strange joy grips me when I throw a snap-T with a dry fly on my 3wt ESN.....I think it's called FREEDOM!
The worst part of fly fishing for me has been working through all the stuff that the Brits dumped on us, and East Coasters adopted..
7'6 Boo for instance.....with a dry or Spider.......
Took me twenty years to break through that BS. I felt constrained and limited by their approach. But then I realized that my water and fish are different, and so is my culture (West coast Anarchic).
Same for the experts in this country for that matter, some folks like rules or guidelines, and some of us think on our own and experiment. There is room for both approaches.......
There were only two of us 13yrs ago on the Truckee sporting a switch rod....now it seems most all do it (except the guys who have chosen their way, and that's it.....sounds familiar...)
The last thing I will do at this point, is let folks tell me the limitations of the gear I use (My rant.). I don't have the privilege of fishing back east, so perhaps I am more easily free of local cultural bias. But for bigger fish, and flows I want a bigger stick. I too don't believe in dancing for longer periods of time with a fish for fun. There is blood sport, and then there is callous behavior.....
I am constantly converting old guys to new sticks and ways of getting the job done. I come close to selling one switch rod a week to guys who have a breakthrough because of their perceived limitations.......some from reading stuff on-line.
When you first start sailing, you may follow the course others have sailed......later, you may set your own course more readily, either way, you are sailing. Some folks set a course no one has set and get extra joy...
And jangles, there IS a difference, chill a little too..........rants are good for the spleen. Mine feels better....
Jim
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Bigfly , believe me when I say that is chilled . I started this because I'm trying to get info on switch rods and what I want to buy or build . Unlike some people on this forum I cant afford the name brands if I am to have the money to fish . I cant even afford a Redington Dually . I have nothing that I consider fishable within a 10 hr drive of me and miles cost money . I have seen some blanks that I am thinking of building on and 1 or 2 rods that I can afford , I just want to be fairly certain when I do drop the coin it will work for what I want . Thx for a constructive rant . Ard , I love you brother but Dayummmm
Bigfly
Well-known member
I could help if you were here......
But there are too many ways to get it right, as well as wrong.
The Echo 4 wt 11ft has impressed me.......nearer a hundred dollars.....
I could collect cans and come up with that kind of scratch.
Had a client like my switch enough he went on-line and for $300 he got a 5wt Z axis.
Sell something, work extra days, but don't short change yourself just to save money, if you are serious....
Money is not the object, but pleasure and performance is pretty close.
Jim
But there are too many ways to get it right, as well as wrong.
The Echo 4 wt 11ft has impressed me.......nearer a hundred dollars.....
I could collect cans and come up with that kind of scratch.
Had a client like my switch enough he went on-line and for $300 he got a 5wt Z axis.
Sell something, work extra days, but don't short change yourself just to save money, if you are serious....
Money is not the object, but pleasure and performance is pretty close.
Jim
I sincerely apologize for my off topic remarks and have removed the comments fro the thread.
Thank you all for the reality check,
Ard
Thank you all for the reality check,
Ard
Bigfly
Well-known member
Ard, I'd rather you post.......because you fish more than most everyone on here...except for me maybe.....I don't take the winter off. HA!!!!
I like taking in your viewpoint......and I learn things.....perhaps you can retire as admin....and just let fly!
Jim
I like taking in your viewpoint......and I learn things.....perhaps you can retire as admin....and just let fly!
Jim