Thanks Thanks:  4
Likes Likes:  20
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 19 of 19
  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    1,044

    Default Re: Spey or Switch Rod - What to learn with?

    Quote Originally Posted by ia_trouter View Post
    No hard and fast rules of course but under 12' and most are going to call it a switch rod.
    I have found that too but I've also seen two really good description of the actions and the described actions seemed to be quite different and somewhat opposite.
    Adoption is Amazing

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Wasilla / Skwentna, Alaska
    Posts
    18,434
    Blog Entries
    142

    Default Re: Spey or Switch Rod - What to learn with?

    Quote Originally Posted by scoutm View Post
    Do you find the faster rods better for beginners. Say the Igniter vs. the MOD?
    The best or most accurate answer I could make is that my Swift rods are fast action rods, so yeah I guess they may be better.

    It's very hard for me to explain things in writing like this but it can be hard at times even in person so I'll try. The faster rod requires a faster and shorter forward (power) stroke in the final step of a cast.

    That power stroke occurs after the first 3 stages of a cast have been completed. The third stage of cast set up happens after the line is in position (anchored) at that point the rod is moved or rotated over the shoulder (right or left) and the D loop forms. Once that D loop has formed to the rear (or in some cases the side) of the caster the forward cast motion happens.

    A fast action rod requires a quick forward stroke so that the rod becomes loaded quickly. A forward cast stroke will not get the flex in the rod like a quick short stroke will. Once you (the caster) are onto the required speed needed to load the rod you are on the way....

    I hope that makes sense, if it doesn't now it will after you have a days instruction. I don't know what language the guide will use in explaining the steps but you'll know what I'm saying soon I think. I've found that it takes years and years to get things perfected. There are so many factors that affect the casting from river to river and even run to run that only time out there casting and fishing allows one to sort things out.

    I fish a mix of long Scandi and Mid Spey lines and in just the past 2 years have finally developed dependable accuracy and have figured out how and when to cast very tight loops. Like I said it's kinda like learning your single hand overhand casting. First you just cast then you learn and train yourself in the fine points.

    A pretty big difference between overhand and the Spey style is that generally with the 2 hand rod you are fishing a streamer type fly on a swing or arc across and down. These casts take longer to play out when you are fishing carefully and thoroughly so you don't make as many casts per hour I don't think. Once you decide whether or not to get into it I'd be happy to chat things up if every you think it could be helpful. I've had many long distance technique talks with members here, it's like getting to know real people

    Anywhere can be the land of great expectations, broken dreams, or paradise found, it's all up to you.


    Ard's Forum blog, Alaska Outdoors

  3. Thanks scoutm thanked for this post
    Likes thirdcoaststeelheader liked this post
  4. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    SF Bay area California
    Posts
    1,456

    Default Re: Spey or Switch Rod - What to learn with?

    I will share my experience. When I first got in to casting two handed rods I bought a 14' spey rod reviews were good for that rod but, I had a heck of a time getting used to it and an even harder time finding the right line for it. Then I bought an 11' switch rod and again struggled finding the right line and technique so I gave up on it. Two years later I had the opportunity to go fish with Ard. Now I knew Ard fishes two handers and we discussed my experience he was not concerned but I was.

    To get ready I bought a used Reddington Dually spey rod 7wt at 13' instead of messing around with lines this time I went straight to Steve Godshall and explained that I was going to fish with Ard and I needed the right line for the conditions I would face with this rod I bought. Steve knows Ard as he has made lines for him before and Steve is also familiar with many, many production rods. Steve made up a line and head set-up for me and I went to the casting ponds near my house and got a couple of quick lessons from the other spey guys in my casting club. I practiced on several weekends for about a month before going to meet Ard. When I joined Ard I left my rod at home and used his equipment instead. That prior practice and Ard's instruction along with the fact that Ard has his equipment fine tuned to the conditions had me getting off good casts accurately in a 1/2 day and felt very comfortable after a couple of days. Now I love using the two handed rod. So I hope my experience will help you make a decision.

    So if you asked me I would say that a short spey rod 12' to 13' in 7wt with the correct line and head and leader will get you up and casting in no time.

    The setup I have is as follows Redington Dually Spey Rod in the model 7130-4. It is 13’ and a 7wt rod, I went to Steve Godshall for a line and he set me up using a 30# no stretch Quantum .038 diameter integrated running line attached to a sgs Skagit head 22.9 feet with a grain weight of 519. Steve recommended a 10' tip in T11.
    I have also expanded to using a floating tip, one in Z12 and another in T14. I also use Ard's leader system using a T11 section embedded into the leader.

    Ard's video and description is available here: (It is well worth watching)


    PS I would love to get my hands on one of those 11'6" Hardy rods that Ard has but the 13 with the right line works well for me.

    Hope this helps,

    Tim C.

  5. Likes scoutm, flytie09 liked this post
  6. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Wasilla / Skwentna, Alaska
    Posts
    18,434
    Blog Entries
    142

    Default Re: Spey or Switch Rod - What to learn with?

    OMG!

    That's quite an endorsement Tim, I need you to come back when we aren't in the middle of a drought. I just read what you wrote and was totally humbled. You are welcome here anytime buddy and I mean that.

  7. Likes tcorfey liked this post
  8. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    SF Bay area California
    Posts
    1,456

    Default Re: Spey or Switch Rod - What to learn with?

    Had a great time with you Ard even though the water was low this time I hope to make more trips up there. I have to say the experience was first rate and I really enjoyed my time bumming around on the river with you. I will probably be up there for a port cyber inspection next year some time. I will let you know if I do.

    Regards,

    Tim C.

  9. Thanks Ard thanked for this post
  10. #16

    Default Re: Spey or Switch Rod - What to learn with?

    The general concensus has always been that it is easier to learn on a spey rod than a switch. I believe this as well, but don't let it stop you from buying a switch rod if you think it will be a better fit for the water you're going to fish on. Spey rods have a slower, deeper flexing action than switch rods which makes learning easier, plus the length helps. Switches require a bit quicker casting motion and the timing needs to be more precise, but it really isn't a big deal. I know plenty of guys who have learned on switches and they did just fine.
    Like others have said getting the line right is the most important thing. At one time there weren't too many good lines for switch rods, but that has changed and you can find all kinds of lines with head lengths and tapers that work well with switches. Steve Godshall is a great resource, he makes great custom lines, but he also gives great advice. He isn't the only way to go, though, all the major line companies make great lines as well. I fish several of Steve's lines as well as lines from Airflo, Rio, and OPST on my two handers.

  11. Likes scoutm liked this post
  12. #17
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Snake, Clearwater and tribs
    Posts
    651

    Default Re: Spey or Switch Rod - What to learn with?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ard View Post

    I'm no expert but can tell you what I think I know. The Spey cast is a thinking exercise, after you have the basics down you may very well experience some difficulty on any given day when you go to fish. This is what I mean by a thinking exercise, when things are not working one must not become frustrated, on the contrary one must think.

    .
    Boy, great way to put it.... Also some other great advice. Two-handed rods are very much a system where the rod needs to be matched with a line for the fishing you are doing. The best advice I can give is don't start the journey on your own, you will just pick up some very bad habits. You do not want those to become muscle memory and harder to break in the future. You will also get more insight into what Ard is talking about. I am still a hack at this... but do know to think things through when my casting is bad. Am I slowing down? Too much top hand (so tighter grip on bottom hand)? Always watch your anchor, is it off today?

    My experience is that I started on bigger water, the Snake and Clearwater in Idaho and WA, about 10 or 12 years ago. MY mentor fished 13 and 14' rods with delta's. His advice was to start with longer rods and lines because it was harder initially, but led to fewer bad habits. He was right, I could cast a scandi on a 13' rod just fine, but found I needed some more help when I moved to 14' and 15' rods with 55' to 65' lines, and most of that was getting rid of bad habits. But, I also note that it takes me some time when I now go back to the 13' rod and scandi.

    Work with the guide on getting your technique right, then see what you like to cast and what is best for your water. The advice you get on the web is from people fishing skagits on short rods on smaller streams, to people on big water with big rods and long lines.

  13. Likes scoutm, Ard liked this post
  14. #18

    Default Re: Spey or Switch Rod - What to learn with?

    I think spey rod is easyer.

  15. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Minnesota - Northern Driftless
    Posts
    2,625

    Default Re: Spey or Switch Rod - What to learn with?

    I define spey and short spey, I don't dig the term switch, although I use the term begrudgingly. I define "switch" as anything under 12` I am glad I started out with a 12`9" spey rod and discovered I like 13`feet for a spey.

    Getting into skinny river sections required a shorter rod, I made the 13` work but it was cumbersome and too heavy, so I went with an 11` short spey. I cast scandi and skagit heads on both rods and they both are useful tools for different rivers.

    If you just have small rivers, I would say just buy a short spey between 11` and 12 feet of the appropriate weight for the flies and size of fish you pursue.


    A longer rod helped me to feel the load and keep it constant and helped me single spey much faster. I feel, Skagit was not as big a deal to learn on a short spey but Scandinavian and mid belly spey lines it was almost a must to start on a spey rod.


    Every modern swinger I know uses and owns both these days if not a few more weights and lengths.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-06-2019, 01:10 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-29-2019, 12:50 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-11-2018, 12:40 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-11-2017, 03:50 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-21-2017, 05:20 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •