Levitated D Loop Anyone?

[Yugo]

I am probably not the first one to notice, when we have a perfect D loop where its energy just gets expanded, we could do a forward cast without any part of the line or fly touching the water. Or I the flourinated water is killing my brain?

Thoughts?

 

[Ard]

Good that you are continuing to post This question though needs a bit more detail before I'd try an answer. My knee jerk response would be that if there is some difficulty in energy being transmitted into the outgoing cast between the D loop stage and that forward cast it may indicate a timing issue. Either the anchor has been lost resulting in little energy being loaded into the rod and transmitted into the line or....…..…… The timing too slow resulting in the fly - leader - tip (if used) sinking and creating a 'stuck' anchor which will also interrupt the load transfer into the cast.

And yes you can make casts without using a touch down at all but I find that to be more stressful than a well executed anchored Spey cast.

 

[Yugo]

I think it goes like this; if I put in more power for the fly to skid the surface, but the fly and fly line did not touch the surface, then the energy of this cast is too much and still moving to the back, a 'swishing' sound occurs when we execute a forward cast. For levitated D loop the energy has to be perfectly expanded and a well inflated D in total stationary position without touching water, then a forward cast is efficient.

It is like casting a conventional gear with the weight stationary behind me. In fly fishing, the fly line is the weight, either it is straightened up in a overhead cast, or formed as a D loop, as long as there is not much slack. As fly casting is much of a 'feel' game to me, I cannot express precisely what and when is the right moment or quantify it in writing.

I think the Spey gods are going to crucify me....

 

[boisker]

Yup, that definitely works, akin to an oval cast just with an exaggerated D loop... I do that often at regular fishing distances with limited overhead room.
I’d guess the loss of the anchor will reduce the amount of line you can cast and would make digging out and casting a large fly far trickier.... I’ve only used it on small rivers for shortish casts.

 

[Hirdy]

I do it regularly too. A single spey without an anchor is great way to make a change of direction cast quickly.

Cheers,
Graeme

 

[Ard]

I honestly can't comment farther because I don't think I do what you describe. That in and of itself doesn't mean that what you are doing is not effective it's just that I don't do it far as I know. One thing I think I know is that when you are using Spey style casts effectively there should not be a high level of sounds such as the rod 'swishing' or water slurping. Please remember I did say "I think I know" not I know.

I believe that any very audible swishing sound is made by a rod slicing through the atmosphere at speed and generally the slicing stroke must be quite long in its degree of radius to produce the swishing sound. Staying on the I think I know theme here's a bit more. I can only relate my own experience and that level grows year by year, at this point I find that my most effective casts, those with the best accuracy - tightest loops and if needed the most length are generated by a short well loaded and powerful stroke that is nearly silent. The only sound is a muted zipping as the line lifts from the water in order.

It should also be added that I do all my fishing using either Mid Spey lines or custom made 44 foot Scandinavian lines with integrated running line. The very nature of these type lines lend themselves to a relaxed style of fishing especially in the casting.

All of that other than the very first part has nothing to do with the original topic but I felt the need to write it and then try to explain myself

 

[Yugo]

Thanks guys for your input.

It seems there are many ways to skin the cat!

Thank you for making me feel at home.

 

[flav]

I can't for the life of me figure out what you guys are describing. It sounds like a belgian cast with a change of direction thrown in except you're talking about forming a D loop, not having your line straighten out behind you. I don't see how forming a D loop is possible without an anchor.

 

[boisker]

I can't for the life of me figure out what you guys are describing. It sounds like a belgian cast with a change of direction thrown in except you're talking about forming a D loop, not having your line straighten out behind you. I don't see how forming a D loop is possible without an anchor.

Imagine the d-loop but raised 12” (or whatever height) above the water

 

[flav]

I'm trying to imagine it, but a cast like that seems like it would not be able to effectively load the rod and would have no power, unless you let the fly pass behind you and let your line straighten out. Then it ceases to be a spey cast, though, and there is no D loop loading the rod.

 

[huronfly]

I'm with you flav, trying to wrap my head around this... definitely not a spey cast without an anchor! Sounds like a Belgian change of direction cast, and doesn't sound very efficient. My wife does this and I try to help her make it more efficient by either: anchoring the leader and fly, or tighten the loop. She doesn't like to listen but she gets it out there, just not as easily as it could be.

 

[trev]

I think it goes like this; if I put in more power for the fly to skid the surface, but the fly and fly line did not touch the surface, then the energy of this cast is too much and still moving to the back, a 'swishing' sound occurs when we execute a forward cast. For levitated D loop the energy has to be perfectly expanded and a well inflated D in total stationary position without touching water, then a forward cast is efficient.

It is like casting a conventional gear with the weight stationary behind me. In fly fishing, the fly line is the weight, either it is straightened up in a overhead cast, or formed as a D loop, as long as there is not much slack. As fly casting is much of a 'feel' game to me, I cannot express precisely what and when is the right moment or quantify it in writing.

I think the Spey gods are going to crucify me....

I was with you until the stationary part, what I do that is similar requires the rod to be in constant motion and thus remain loaded, as in the Belgian cast, and there is never a D; more of an aerial snake. (I think, maybe)

 

[boisker]

To clarify... I haven’t referred to it as a Spey, but I did describe it as akin to an oval cast (or a Belgian cast)... I use it predominantly for shortish casts (20-30’) for quick change of directions, I haven’t tried it for long casts.
Call it what you will, a ‘more stationary’ Belgian cast, a d-loop without anchor... doesn’t really matter... it’s quick and works really well.
The tightness of the loop isn’t controlled by the anchor, that’s due to the tracking.

For a switch / dynamic roll cast the ideal is the anchor is extremely short and barely kisses the water... the anchor really isn’t as crucial as people think in ‘loading’ the rod....
Some things to think about-
Anchor Loading the Rod? <<

 

[trev]

Good article, boisker. Bears out what I always maintained, that a D loop only exists because it makes description easier. I wish he had used some form of pictures of illustrations, because Vimeo never works.
Every one has done a wiggle test and watched the rod self load, we all know that the bend is a reaction to the speed and force with which we move the grip. The mass of the line just adds a tiny bit to that. The lines own action-reaction set up can be demonstrated by hand casting or using a broom handle as a rod every movement or force is passed down the line regardless of rod or no rod.
I generally illustrate the roll cast with a 50' extension cord, it is very common to find people that have flicked a roll into a cord to move it over a few feet or to unsnag it, replace the cord with line and the hand with a tiptop and shizam you have made a roll cast.
The cord is just dead and inert til the airborne loop picks it up and moves it then passes the force to the next portion.
I have cast with the dead line in front of me, to my left and to my right and moved the line in any direction wanted, in over four decades of fishing this way I have never purposely or consciously set a D loop or an anchor. But then I read stuff on the 'net that makes me doubt what I think I've done.

 

[boisker]

It’s a great site, some really interesting articles that get you thinking about casting...

 

[Yugo]

Glad you guys enjoy the conversation. It is like a finger pointing to the moon but it is never about the finger, or even the moon. Great company

 

[Unknownflyman]

I am probably not the first one to notice, when we have a perfect D loop where its energy just gets expanded, we could do a forward cast without any part of the line or fly touching the water. Or I the flourinated water is killing my brain?

Thoughts?

There are Ariel spey casts, I watched a video of such casts, more of a touch and go style but it was cool and the guy was talented.

 

[boisker]

Yeah Unknown.... i watched something similar (possibly the same )
Caster demonstrated switch/jump/dynamic Spey where they were showing the cast where with timing you can miss out the anchor stage..
I spent 30 mins trying to find it last night but couldn’t... I had a vague memory it was Simon Gawesworth, but I scanned a number of his vids to no avail... so if it was I couldn’t find it

 

[Yugo]

There are Ariel spey casts, I watched a video of such casts, more of a touch and go style but it was cool and the guy was talented.

Darn.... I am late to the game!

 

[Unknownflyman]

Yeah Unknown.... i watched something similar (possibly the same )
Caster demonstrated switch/jump/dynamic Spey where they were showing the cast where with timing you can miss out the anchor stage..
I spent 30 mins trying to find it last night but couldn’t... I had a vague memory it was Simon Gawesworth, but I scanned a number of his vids to no avail... so if it was I couldn’t find it

I also looked for the video but couldn't find. It was posted here on the forum 4 years ago.