Roll cast question

[TxArcheo]

All -

I'm a relative newcomer to this fine sport and have a roll cast question for you experienced casters.

I can typically manage a decent roll cast on still waters; however, I was out on a river (first time with the fly rod) and came across a tight quarters situation that I thought called for a roll cast but was at a complete loss on how to accomplish this on moving water. All the online instructionals I found demonstrate the roll cast on still water.

Can a roll cast be used/performed effectively on moving water; particularly across the current? If so, can anyone shed some light on how to achieve or maybe direct me to some literature?

Thank you for looking and by the way, great forum group you all have here.

 

[cb]

You have now entered into the wonderful world of speycasting! In effect spey casts (and there are several of them) are jump-roll casts with a change of direction. On running water of course you often need to change direction of the cast because the fly has swung around on the current.

Now the fun bit. If the wind is blowing downstream you must keep the fly below you and roll from your downstream arm. If the wind is blowing upstream then you must position the fly upstream of you before you make the final cast (jump roll) using the upstream arm. It is quite wonderful the ways you can achieve this. I suggest you search YouTube for spey casting but for now here is a good one. (no one casts this way on a river - but shows how much fun it can be!)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIrnBUgWUBA"]YouTube - Advanced Speycasting with Eoin Fairgrieve[/ame]

Enjoy the learning journey!

Colin.

 

[jpbfly]

Roll cast is of course very useful on moving waters,if you can perform it on still waters there shouldn't be any problem on a stream or a river,so try it,I think it's hard for you for the lenght on line on the water is shorter so you need to get used to it.Maybe when you wade try to go a little far from the branches in your back or bend your rod(45° angle)if you can combine roll and curve cast it'll be great.Hope it can help and one of my US friends will add their two cents:icon_bigg

 

[FrankB2]

I have Joan Wulff's DVD, and she starts a roll cast with a few feet of line,
until eventually all of the line has been roll cast. Maybe you need to
make two roll casts: one to get the line somewhat upstream, and the second
to get the line more upstream. Ken Morrow or another qualified instructor
should be able to offer more advice.

 

[mcnerney]

Search YouTube for Roll Casting and you will see some good videos showing how to do a roll cast. Here is just one: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ccrwq4QJpw"]YouTube - Fly Fishing Casting Techniques : How to Do a Roll Cast in Fly Fishing[/ame]

Larry

 

[speyrod1]

look up a snap-T spey cast for those tight quarters you will find it very useful even with a single handed rod it combines the roll cast along with the change of direction you are looking for on moving water
good luck on your quest of fly casting dont be affraid to use some of the spey casts with the single handed rod you will find they are a great tool to have on some tight water

 

[BigCliff]

Y'all are making this too damn hard. A simple roll cast can work when needing to change angles in moving water (throwing back across the river after letting the fly swing downstream), but direction changes over 30 degrees can be tough.

I think the double spey is most useful for the situation the original post described. Its a little tricky to learn, but you'll find yourself doing it as often as possible once you get it just for the fun of it. Here's the two most important things to remeber: always have at least your fly (if not some leader as well) touching the water before delivering the forward cast, and do not cast over your leader. (doing the latter generally causes tangles.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZy23C5du-o&feature=related"]YouTube - Flycasting_Double Spey cast[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWIhoGw5FdY"]YouTube - Single Handed Double Spey Cast :: newzealandfishing.com[/ame]

You may find it easier to use your non-rod hand to the butt of the rod to add a little more snap to your stroke. I frequently use the technique with my 9' 4wt and can throw 70' with little backcast room.

 

[randyflycaster]

For me one of the biggest problems with roll casting is maintaining line tension, or keeping slack out of the line. To help me do this I use my finger to hold the line against the rod handle. When I stop the rod at the end of the forward cast I release the line. Also, I begin my forward cast just before my fly stops moving. I want my loop to be in the shape of an oval (or a D-loop.) If I wait to long my line loses the shape.

Randy

 

[cb]

Here's the two most important things to remeber:

I'd add a third Cliff - don't use the double spey in an upstream wind. Gentle upstream breeze perhaps-but only if you cant do the single spey. Downstream wind perfect. Downstream gale use the snake roll.

Tight loops!

Colin.

 

[flyguy66]

do y'all shoot line on the roll cast?

can you aerialize a roll cast?

at the end of your downstream drift, simply retrieve most of your line and pick up. plop it down upstream, shoot line on the roll cast to the target. ta-da! this is best option for delicate presentations (dry flies, spooky fish situations, short to medium distance roll casts, etc.)

the other best option is the 1-handed double-spey. (fine for streamer fishing and such on faster water, etc. where subtle approaches are not important)

if you learn to aerialize your roll cast (keep the loop in the air from the time you start the forward casting stroke until the fly lands), the upstream roll cast becomes far more efficient. i'll give you a hint: the fly line is going to follow the path of the rod tip on a bigger scale, right? can you execute a side-armed roll cast? play with it! and remember - slack is the enemy!

 

[jpbfly]

Glad you got a lot of replies

 

[TxArcheo]

Thank you all for the videos, tips, and suggestions!

Just when you think you're getting the hang of things a whole new wrinkle is thrown into the mix. However, that's what makes this such a wonderful sport....always something to learn.

Thank you all again, and now it's time digest this information and find what works for me.

 

[ssjchar]

I have a question about roll casting. is there a limit to how far or how much line you can roll cast? i'm only able to roll cast maybe 20 feet so far, though i've only been fly fishing for 2 days now.

 

[Frank Whiton]

Hi ssjchar,

I got a little chuckle out of your 2 Day comment. It is going to take a little longer than that to learn all of the cast.

If you are only getting 20 feet you are probably throwing the cast downward at the end. You can aim your roll cast upward to gain more distance. It is the same principal as when you make a regular cast. You can tilt the forward delivery higher to gain more distance. If you end any cast with the rod tip going down toward the water you will limit your distance.

Frank

 

[robert b]

It's my opinion that alot of anglers overthink their roll cast. It's fairly intuitive and easy to do. Also, although I think a spey cast can be effective in certain situations, it shouldn't be needed when a roll cast will work almost anywhere. The only difference with still water and moving water is that instead of the 'D' shape being directly behind you, it's more downstream. I find it easiest to use the roll cast when my casting arm is my downstream arm. Just allow your line to go all the way downstream and lose all the slack, then just as in the still water roll cast, bring your rod up and allow the line to form a 'D' shape behind you and cast. Simple! I actually find it easier to roll cast on moving water as you don't have to worry about getting rid of all the slack, the stream will do that for you :icon_bigg

 

[Frank Whiton]

Hi Everyone,

If you do a lot of roll casting you have to learn how to cast from both shoulders. You should have a small tilt to your hand to the right with a right hander. If the wind changes you need to tilt your hand to the left so the rod now comes back over the left shoulder but still with the right hand. So let the wind decide how you are going to make your roll cast. If you don't, as the line unrolls the wind will blow the line into its self. Switch to the other shoulder and the wind will blow the line away from your cast.

Frank

 

[morayflyfisher]

Do you advocate the D loop system with rolls and spey casts? only reason I ask is that it helps with the safety aspect for those learning, that the D loop is kept to the side where the wind is blowing ie up or down. and keeps the line away from your body.Spey casts are designed as change of direction casts on running water and more used than just the basic roll,
As Frank says usefull to be able to cast off both shoulders.

Spey casts I find are very easily learned when you switch from single hand rods to double handed,but going from double to single for some can be alot harder.

 

[Bigfly]

Another great place to use the roll cast, is "rolling up" a line from the water.
I often water load a cast directly upstream. Then, as my line returns to me, I raise my rod tip naturally into a roll cast position. As soon as the line forms a loop behind the rod I angle my next roll cast more across the current. In two or three, cast/drift/roll up sequences, I can often cover close to 90 degrees across the stream. This is better to me than false casting, because the line is on the water more. An old guy once told me, "you can't catch fish with your line in the air".

 

[Frank Whiton]

Hi Everyone,

As Ken mentioned sometimes I like to use a roll cast to pick up the fly line. You start the same motion as the regular roll cast but you aim it higher and the line will pick up off the water and roll over into a straight line in the air. You need to have the fly moving when you begin the cast and you have to aim the cast higher. I used this a lot when fishing a short integrated sink tip. You can't pick up as much line and you have to cast from the correct side to accommodate any wind.

Frank

 

[breach]

Anyone can give me some advise for picking up big flies out of the water with a RollCast? For Example, there is no way I can acheive a Rollcast when a size 6 wooly bugger is tied to my line. There is just not enough power in my cast to lift it up of the water.

Thanks
Breach