How do you know you have the right line for your rod?

[tpcollins]

I bought a 10wt fly rod recently and measured it based on a rating system that supposedly indicates it's effective rod number - it registered about a 13wt instead of a 10wt. But it casts some Orvis 9wt fairly well. I picked up a bargain on some Orvis WF 11wt (looks more like clothesine rope) and although I was able to cast it, the loops seemed to "sag" towards the ground both in front and behind me with more of an arch than being straight out. And I was working hard to keep from dropping the tip.

Can I assume the line might be a bit too heavy for this rod or would it mainly be my poor casting ability? I can keep the line horizontal pretty well with lighter rods including a my 9wt. But all of those rods pretty much measure up to the exact rating that's listed for those rods - just trying to figure out if it's me, the line's too heavy for the rod, or if heavy fly line is just hard to cast to begin with? Thanks.

 

[bigjim5589]

The longer you've been casting a fly rod, the easier it is to cast the different weights. Experience certainly counts for something! However, it does sometimes take some time to get used to a new rod, especially if it's vastly different in weight than what you're used to since your timing is going to be different. The distance you're attempting to cast will also make a difference.

Heavier rods are more difficult to cast, primarily because the line weighs more. I only had a 6 wt for a long time, and first time I cast a 10 wt, it took a bit of getting used to. I can cast my 3 wt, much easier than my 6 wt. although I really do not have much difficulty with any rod weight at this point. (45 years of fly fishing!)

If that rod is rated for a 10 wt line, then chances are, it will also cast a weight heavier, or one weight lighter. It should not be so far off that it will work well with a 13 wt line. However, again, experience will make a difference as to how well it will cast each line size. With the 11 wt line, if your timing is off a bit, it may seem like that heavier line is wrong for the rod. It of course could be, but the only way to really determine that it to compare it with another line, like a 9 or 10 wt. One or two casts may not do it either, since it could just be a matter of timing.

I also have a 10 wt rod that casts either a 10 or a 9 wt pretty well, so I use both size lines with it. This works well for me, and that's the real bottom line with any rod & line combination. I've never tried an 11 wt line with it, so don't know how it might cast it. Really see no need to try it.

Once you determine which line works best for you with that rod, then that's what you should use with it regardless of it's rating.

 

[wjc]

I agree with Big Jim.

Basically, you have to just try them. The CCS system doesn't work for me because it doesn't reflect how I actually cast when using the rod.

The line weights that work for me with my rods are either at or lower than what the rod is labeled at by the manufacturer even when the CCS system labels that same rod 3 weights higher. Like yours, mine are typically rated by CCS as 3 weights heavier.

If the 9 wt line is close, then I'd try a 10 wt when you get the chance.

PS out of curiosity, what rod and model is it?

 

[Guest1]

PS out of curiosity, what rod and model is it?

I'm curious as well. Most heavier rods I've tested seem to test out pretty close to the stated weight. They don't generally turn into big fibbers till you get down to the 5 wt. rods.

 

[silver creek]

I would say to try casting shorter lengths of the heaveir line and gradually work your way up. Try 15 ft of line first rather than ripping off 30 feet as the starting point.

 

[tpcollins]

PS out of curiosity, what rod and model is it?

It's a Colton Tradewinds UD82 10wt. They have a big following on the Stripers Online forum and since they were 40% off right now I thought I'd take a shot at one. It has a rather stout saltwater butt section which is what I wanted for salmon fishing here in Michigan.

Most of the fly guys on our main salmon river here seem to use 8 wts and when they hook a fish, they have to pull anchor and chase it all over the river trying to land it. I want to just sit in the boat and after I'm done playing, I want to turn them towards the boat and reel them in. I also bought their Colton Torrnet 911 fly reel - it makes my Ross Canyon 5 look like a toy!

I can't find my Umpqua fly line checker at the moment to verify the 11wt line is really 11wt but man that line looks thick!

 

[tpcollins]

I can't find my Umpqua fly line checker at the moment to verify the 11wt line is really 11wt but man that line looks thick!

Finally found my Umpqua line checker and this line weighs in at a solid 13wt - no wonder I had trouble.

 

[chuckfluffer]

I have never heard of this line checker. What is it and how does it work. I have a drawer full of lines I never bagged and marked and I now don't have a clue what weight they are.

Mike

 

[swirlchaser]

I have never heard of this line checker. What is it and how does it work. I have a drawer full of lines I never bagged and marked and I now don't have a clue what weight they are.

Mike

I've seen these before but never knew if they actually worked.

Umpqua - Umpqua? Fly Line Scale

 

[Guest1]

I have never heard of this line checker. What is it and how does it work. I have a drawer full of lines I never bagged and marked and I now don't have a clue what weight they are.

Mike

I have used this system to find out what they are in the past. Hopefully there are a few U.S. pennies floating around over thee if you decide to try this. I never made the fancy stand, and just used the cupboard door handle.
http://www.common-cents.info/part4.pdf

 

[tpcollins]

I've seen these before but never knew if they actually worked.

Umpqua - Umpqua? Fly Line Scale

That's exactly the one I've had. And I have measured varoius weights (in grains) on my RCBS powder scale and they have always aligned correctly on the Umpqua.

It's really handy when you've got more lines than reels and you wonder "what the heck weight is this line"?

 

[chuckfluffer]

I know all I need to know about CCS. It was done to death on Sexyloops. We even created a rod data base Sexyloops Rod Database

Despite Dr Bills best efforts I never got my head round it.

The line checker looks good, I need one. Can anyone give me a link to an online dealer?

Mike

 

[wjc]

Tp,

Thanks for the link and info. I will buy one myself. I didn't know there was such a thing. I was looking at balance beams on ebay just a week or so ago, but since you've checked that one for accuracy and found it good, I will go with it. Much handier.

 

[tpcollins]

Right, wrong, or indifferent, since I was test casting this new 10wt and comparing it to my 9wt, I wound up measuring the first 30' of line on two differnt lines and took a Sharpie and marked a spot about a half inch all the way around the line.

After verifying the line's weight, I'd use that mark to let out just enough line past the tip top so I would cast only 30' - might be a bit overkill but I've always been a bit anal-retentive.

 

[swirlchaser]

Right, wrong, or indifferent, since I was test casting this new 10wt and comparing it to my 9wt, I wound up measuring the first 30' of line on two differnt lines and took a Sharpie and marked a spot about a half inch all the way around the line.

After verifying the line's weight, I'd use that mark to let out just enough line past the tip top so I would cast only 30' - might be a bit overkill but I've always been a bit anal-retentive.

Be careful when lines in the 9-11wt range, especially saltwater lines. They routinely have heads longer than 30'. If your trying to cast a line with a 45' head and only using the first 30' you won't get favorable results.

 

[Jackster]

Since many here are gear and casting freaks I find it suprising many don't have the Umpqua scale.
It can be tweaked and calibrated bit using a known weight which is great since most all doubt about its accuracy can be removed. To further eliminate doubt you can always do a comparitive measurement at the weight the line is supposed to be.
I keep a small slip of paper in the alligator jaw to place 30' of line in large loops in the paper. the tag end of the line adds weight so always make sure to minimize it's influence somehow. I usually just hold it next to the loops so as not to add weight.
The Umpqua scale is a handy contraption that is always in my reel case. I use it quite a bit for friends and fellow club members who aren't sure of their line weights.
The 30' standard may not be perfect for all lines and situations but for the everyday fly fisher who just wants an idea of what their true line weight is it's a pretty handy device.

 

[wjc]

Jackster,

I had always figured guys were using triple beam scales for weighing lines. Since that thing is cheap and so handy, I will have one soon.

Be careful when lines in the 9-11wt range, especially saltwater lines. They routinely have heads longer than 30'. If your trying to cast a line with a 45' head and only using the first 30' you won't get favorable results.

Agreed. I would be more apt to mark the end of the head if I were going to mark it, as well as weighing the entire head and not the first 30 feet. Once you find one line that works well with the rod and then weigh the entire head, then you can email the the manufacturers for a total head weight that is closest to the optimum for that particular rod.



Cheers,
Jim

 

[FlyFlinger2421]

To measure line weight, just coil up the first 30 feet and put it on any grain scale. I have a digital that works fine. Then go to the AFTM chart to see where the line lies.
If the line is a sink tip you can start cutting off the tip until it matches the weight line you need.
Many sink tips are sold with only the weight of the sink tip provided. No mention is made of the AFTM weight. How the hell can a 650gr, 20ft sink tip be rated for a 10 weight rod?
To get proper line/rod balance don't forget to add the split shot and weighted fly to the line weight.

 

[FrankB2]

I don't like the idea behind the CCS. It's a measurement of a tool at rest, and that tool isn't used in a static manner. My 5wt Z-Axis is reported to be a 7.5wt on some CCS charts, but it works just fine with a 5wt GPX line for the nearly 4 years I've owned the rod. I've even used a 4wt GPX line with the rod. I've thought about trying a 6wt line on the rod only because it was suggested by a guy that uses the same rod a lot, but it casts fine with the 5wt and I'm lazy. If the rod is working well with the line weight designated on the rod, then enjoy.

CCS: Sounds okay until you start adding the variables, i.e, the caster, distance, weight of fly, leader, etc. My wife and I can use the same rod, but we don't use the same amount of force when moving the rod. At times, I'll use more force than my wife, and at other times (usually the wrong time), she'll apply much more power than needed. When she's using the Z-Axis, she knows she used the right amount of force when the line is snapped out of her left hand. That's often less force, and proper timing, and she always gives that smile that says, "I got it right".

There are probably rods out there that would work better with a line other than the one designated, but I've never owned one. There are some tournament rods that reportedly don't load well unless you have a LOT of line in the air, but I only buy rods meant for fishing. I suppose if you had a 5wt tournament rod, and wanted to use it on a small stream, then a heavier line might work better.

P.S. I own graphite and bamboo 4wt rods. I've never done it, but could guarantee you that a bag of pennies hung from the graphite rods would touch the floor on the bamboo rods. The bamboo flexes from here to tomorrow, but casts a 4wt line with beautiful loops.

 

[FlyFlinger2421]

It also depends a lot on the distance of your cast. A short cast may take overweighting by 1 or 2 line sizes to make casting easy. Long cast, such as for cruisers out of a tube, you may want to underweight one size.
I can generally cast a size up or down, but it takes a few casts to get used to the change in rhythm.
Testing your rod and line just gives you a baseline to work from in my opinion and this is just something I do because there is too much ice to fish the streams and not enough to ice fish the lakes yet!:icon_lol: