Help with the double haul, please?
- Thread starter Sahagan
- Start date
Frank Whiton
Most Senior Member
Hi Sahagan,
Your best bet is to get Mel Krieger's "Essence of Casting". It covers the double haul and is a simple method. If you want to read instructions then try Lefty Kreh. Here is a second site to read. The secret to learning is to use very short hauls until you get the timing down.
Your best bet is to get Mel Krieger's "Essence of Casting". It covers the double haul and is a simple method. If you want to read instructions then try Lefty Kreh. Here is a second site to read. The secret to learning is to use very short hauls until you get the timing down.
Both the authors mentioned are good, but I seem to learn quicker from a DVD and would recommend one of Lefty Kreh's tapes. I find him very easy to follow. The best way, though, would be to get some personal instruction from someone in your area.
BigCliff
Well-known member
Best casting instruction site I know of- here's their double haul page Double Haul Basics
BigCliff
Well-known member
Best casting instruction site i know of- here's their double haul page: Double Haul Basics
Hey Cliff;
And my sincerest thanks for the link....I watched it time after time. Fact is, I'd read instructions about double hauling years ago, even tried to practice for a spell. I didn't see enough advantage in it to continue trying, although it appears something stuck, for I've been using a sort of single haul method since, on my uptake.
Well sir, I'm now convinced that video is many times better at teaching physical action and methods than the written word.
But I do end up with an observation and a question. I've been casting a flyrod since age fifteen (and I'm 57 now) and had never used, nor seen used, the kind of power and swiftness (some might say violence) the teacher uses on the upswing or loading the rod, and the forward casting loading of the rod. You can hear the rod and line 'swishing' as if it were filmed at a Japanese martial arts movie studio. That taught me something I'll be practicing on for sure.
And my question....when is he shooting line? I'm assuming it's when his hands come together, after gathering more line when the hands are farthest apart. Or am I totally off the beam here?
My thanks Sir!
Sahagan
And my sincerest thanks for the link....I watched it time after time. Fact is, I'd read instructions about double hauling years ago, even tried to practice for a spell. I didn't see enough advantage in it to continue trying, although it appears something stuck, for I've been using a sort of single haul method since, on my uptake.
Well sir, I'm now convinced that video is many times better at teaching physical action and methods than the written word.
But I do end up with an observation and a question. I've been casting a flyrod since age fifteen (and I'm 57 now) and had never used, nor seen used, the kind of power and swiftness (some might say violence) the teacher uses on the upswing or loading the rod, and the forward casting loading of the rod. You can hear the rod and line 'swishing' as if it were filmed at a Japanese martial arts movie studio. That taught me something I'll be practicing on for sure.
And my question....when is he shooting line? I'm assuming it's when his hands come together, after gathering more line when the hands are farthest apart. Or am I totally off the beam here?
My thanks Sir!
Sahagan
BigCliff
Well-known member
Going on the assumption that you're asking when to shoot line during the false casts, you should do so immediately after the "follow" part of tha haul, as you're bringing your hands together after the pull. It will take some practice to learn how much line you can shoot on each false casts and this depends on many variables.
The main thing that will allow you to shoot more line is line speed. The more line speed you are generating on those false casts, the further the line will carry before gravity starts to bring it down. The casting loops being tight in both directions will greatly add to this.
Wind can also affect this. If you have the wind at your back, you may not be able to shoot much line on the back-cast, but you can take advantage of the wind by throwing your forward cast high and letting the wind help it unroll. Into the wind, the situation would be flip-flopped. Just always try to make sure the cast into the wind is a tight loop.
The main thing that will allow you to shoot more line is line speed. The more line speed you are generating on those false casts, the further the line will carry before gravity starts to bring it down. The casting loops being tight in both directions will greatly add to this.
Wind can also affect this. If you have the wind at your back, you may not be able to shoot much line on the back-cast, but you can take advantage of the wind by throwing your forward cast high and letting the wind help it unroll. Into the wind, the situation would be flip-flopped. Just always try to make sure the cast into the wind is a tight loop.
Well, I spent some time practicing today...the double haul is going to take some getting used to, and apparently, quite a lot of practice.
I did however, put a good deal more "zip!" to my uptake and forward cast. And, it throws me off some, since it means my rod tip goes to places I'm not familiar with, resulting in big loops, line hitting line, and so forth.
On the other hand, when I get it right, and without trying to double haul, I can get 55-60 (I have a 100 yard shooting range in my back yard, with signs posted giving 25 yard increments, so measuring is easy, if not exactly totally accurate) feet with a small popper tied on. With nothing but the tippet, I can get 70 feet, but not as reliably as I should like.
Fortunately, those distances are sufficient for about 99 percent of my fishing situations. That doesn't mean though, that I won't continue to practice and learn the double haul.
In truth, this forum and these threads have caused my flyfishing jones to expand, well beyond the monkey on my back, to might near a passion. I'd better watch carefully, or I'll be buying stuff online....and Lord knows that therein lies trouble.
Again, thanks for the help and encouragement!
Sahagan
I did however, put a good deal more "zip!" to my uptake and forward cast. And, it throws me off some, since it means my rod tip goes to places I'm not familiar with, resulting in big loops, line hitting line, and so forth.
On the other hand, when I get it right, and without trying to double haul, I can get 55-60 (I have a 100 yard shooting range in my back yard, with signs posted giving 25 yard increments, so measuring is easy, if not exactly totally accurate) feet with a small popper tied on. With nothing but the tippet, I can get 70 feet, but not as reliably as I should like.
Fortunately, those distances are sufficient for about 99 percent of my fishing situations. That doesn't mean though, that I won't continue to practice and learn the double haul.
In truth, this forum and these threads have caused my flyfishing jones to expand, well beyond the monkey on my back, to might near a passion. I'd better watch carefully, or I'll be buying stuff online....and Lord knows that therein lies trouble.
Again, thanks for the help and encouragement!
Sahagan
Frank Whiton
Most Senior Member
Sahagan,
You will learn the double haul much quicker if you use short (6" to 12") hauls and keep the rod hand and line hand close together. Doing a haul with fully extended arms is very difficult for a beginner.
You will learn the double haul much quicker if you use short (6" to 12") hauls and keep the rod hand and line hand close together. Doing a haul with fully extended arms is very difficult for a beginner.
Frank Whiton
Most Senior Member
bonefish41
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Lefty Kreh's tape of the double haul is great...as it demonstrates without changing the energy of the stroke but changing the power of the double haul the length of the cast may be significantly increased.
In falts salt site fishing... it's function is wind casting and quick shots at 50-75 feet by quick I mean a roll out of your hand forward, then back, then forward, then back, then shoot to the fish...all the while keeping an eye on the fish, the wind, the line coiled at your feet so you don't hook yourself in the ear or the guide as I just did...have not done that in 20 years...or the coiled line is fouled
timing is everything and down up on the back cast and down forward to shoot(another cycle would of course be down up on the forward cast)...when you have not done it for awhile and particularly not in front of a fish which you are sighting...for me the first time or two...sometimes "buck fever" takes over and I forget the up stroke and am left with no where to go on the forward(unless my arm would extend another two feet) cast and the cast ends up woefully short of the fish...
In falts salt site fishing... it's function is wind casting and quick shots at 50-75 feet by quick I mean a roll out of your hand forward, then back, then forward, then back, then shoot to the fish...all the while keeping an eye on the fish, the wind, the line coiled at your feet so you don't hook yourself in the ear or the guide as I just did...have not done that in 20 years...or the coiled line is fouled
timing is everything and down up on the back cast and down forward to shoot(another cycle would of course be down up on the forward cast)...when you have not done it for awhile and particularly not in front of a fish which you are sighting...for me the first time or two...sometimes "buck fever" takes over and I forget the up stroke and am left with no where to go on the forward(unless my arm would extend another two feet) cast and the cast ends up woefully short of the fish...
randyflycaster
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randyflycaster
Well-known member
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I shoot line after I stop the rod and finish the haul. (The line is unrolling.) I use the counting method to know how much line I shot. (I count to myself: one, two, three, for instance, and know that I shot about five feet of line.)
I never shoot more than ten feet of line.
I believe that the short double haul is fine for most fishing, but to make long casts you'll have to use a long double haul.
I also believe that one of the biggest problems with executing the haul is not finishing the upward haul with our line hand at the same level as our rod hand. If our line hand is lower, slack will form between our hands when we begin our cast. To help avoid this, I make sure I stop the rod and my downward haul at the same time. Also, when I shoot line I simultaneously slide my line hand up. Shooting line, therefore, helps me get my line hand up to my rod hand.
Randy Kadish
I never shoot more than ten feet of line.
I believe that the short double haul is fine for most fishing, but to make long casts you'll have to use a long double haul.
I also believe that one of the biggest problems with executing the haul is not finishing the upward haul with our line hand at the same level as our rod hand. If our line hand is lower, slack will form between our hands when we begin our cast. To help avoid this, I make sure I stop the rod and my downward haul at the same time. Also, when I shoot line I simultaneously slide my line hand up. Shooting line, therefore, helps me get my line hand up to my rod hand.
Randy Kadish
cliftz
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My main rod is a TFO TiCr 6 wt. 3 pc. Very fast action. Very tight loops.
My double haul improved because of a much shorter casting stroke
then with one of my slow action rods. And, for me, when I really slowed
down and felt what was going on, and the tension in the rod and line.
and really watching what the line was actually doing after the stop...
it unrolls, I don't know of any other way to describe it...
I notice if my form is off and I jerk the rod tip up with my right hand during the forward portion before the stop
as I'm pulling the line with my left hand (left hand is going by my left hip),
usually the line hits itself or my rod. It's definately a rhythm to the double
haul.
for a different take on this, check this video link out:
I practise tight loop double - hauls with my right elbow in contact just below my right rib cage. Maybe twenty five to thirty-foot casts. and I really watch the line ... but the best practise for me is in the dark.
That swishing sound you hear is line speed.
and that's what shooting is
about...sometimes when I do it just right, it's almost startling (how quickly
the line gets waaay out there in front of you).
Most importantly, for me, is feet positioning and how you distribute your
weight over your feet through different phases of moderate distance double-
haul. The longer you extend your arms you have to be aware of where your
center of gravity is located. Sometimes on my forward cast, I almost fall
forward and in catching my balance I screw up the cast and nullify the energy
created. This happens when I correct the forward imbalance by adjusting
my body backwards.
You'll pardon my lack of volcabulary describing the motions...
I learned thinking about the rod being full or empty.
My double haul improved because of a much shorter casting stroke
then with one of my slow action rods. And, for me, when I really slowed
down and felt what was going on, and the tension in the rod and line.
and really watching what the line was actually doing after the stop...
it unrolls, I don't know of any other way to describe it...
I notice if my form is off and I jerk the rod tip up with my right hand during the forward portion before the stop
as I'm pulling the line with my left hand (left hand is going by my left hip),
usually the line hits itself or my rod. It's definately a rhythm to the double
haul.
for a different take on this, check this video link out:
Code:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Gunter+Feuerstein%27s+Backhand+Power+%28High%29+Haul&search=SearchThat swishing sound you hear is line speed.
and that's what shooting is about...sometimes when I do it just right, it's almost startling (how quickly
the line gets waaay out there in front of you).
Most importantly, for me, is feet positioning and how you distribute your
weight over your feet through different phases of moderate distance double-
haul. The longer you extend your arms you have to be aware of where your
center of gravity is located. Sometimes on my forward cast, I almost fall
forward and in catching my balance I screw up the cast and nullify the energy
created. This happens when I correct the forward imbalance by adjusting
my body backwards.
You'll pardon my lack of volcabulary describing the motions...
I learned thinking about the rod being full or empty.
randyflycaster
Well-known member
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It's hard to make suggestions without watching someone cast. I think the reason the line is hitting you or the rod is not because of your hauling. Also, I'm not sure why your having trouble with your balance. Let me say that in Lefty Kreh's style of casting he uses an open stance - his right foot is well behind his left - and when he makes a back cast his elbow passes his rear shoulder.
I use more of a closed stance, like Joan Wulff. The front of my right foot is even with the middle of my left. When I cast I don't pull my elbow back, but I bend my knees and rotate my hips during the cast and my elbow therefore moves back and forth because of my rotation. During the cast my elbow points about 45 degrees to the right of the target. My main point is that I think a caster should commit to either style. It sounds like your somewhere in the middle of both, and that the reason your line is hitting you or the rod is that your keeping your elbow close to your body - like Joan - but your rear foot is too far back and, therefore, you can't abruptly stop the cast without lowering the rod tip from the target line.
Randy Kadish
Randy Kadish
I use more of a closed stance, like Joan Wulff. The front of my right foot is even with the middle of my left. When I cast I don't pull my elbow back, but I bend my knees and rotate my hips during the cast and my elbow therefore moves back and forth because of my rotation. During the cast my elbow points about 45 degrees to the right of the target. My main point is that I think a caster should commit to either style. It sounds like your somewhere in the middle of both, and that the reason your line is hitting you or the rod is that your keeping your elbow close to your body - like Joan - but your rear foot is too far back and, therefore, you can't abruptly stop the cast without lowering the rod tip from the target line.
Randy Kadish
Randy Kadish
flyfishercecil
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Gentlemen, thanks for all of the tips on double haul. I am especially indebted to Big Cliff because I followed the suggestion and checked out Sexyloops and it is, to use a too worn phrase, awesome.
I have book marked the site and will be using it a lot - I am certain. I am very new to the North American Forum and am grateful for such a wonerful resource.
and remember, "pescator non solum pescatur"
From the Great White North, thanks!
I have book marked the site and will be using it a lot - I am certain. I am very new to the North American Forum and am grateful for such a wonerful resource.
and remember, "pescator non solum pescatur"
From the Great White North, thanks!