How to roll cast farther???

[Matttrick]

Hey all,

I recently encountered a situation I, as a newbie to fly fishing, did not know the answer to. I was fishing a small lake/pond with still water for large mouth bass. While fishing, I was out in waist deep water. There was an over hanging tree above me, and brush on the bank maybe 10 feet behind me. I was practicing my roll cast as I thought this to be an excellent situation. My issue was that I just could not get the fly out far enough. I was able to cast in the 40-50 ft. range with my roll cast, by pulling out more line before beginning my cast. Then I could pay it all out on the forward part of the roll cast, but to much line(or slack) meant the line was unrolling all the way. But I couldn't use a back cast and haul more line out b/c of the limited space. This was on my six weight rod. I was using a fairly large clouser, probably a #4. Any recommendations? I was try to get the fly out to maybe another 20 ft, as there was a partially submerged boat and there were some large fish in that area hitting the surface. I need some poppers.

 

[error4o4]

I tend to do a lot of fishing on small ponds and lakes, typically with a ton of brush on the bank. The roll cast works great, but I too was having trouble with distance. I use a 4w floating line on a 4w 7'6" Cortland rod. A fly fishing buddy turned me on to Russ Peak's line dressing. Made all the difference in the world. This would be my suggestion... but i'm a noob. hahahaha.

 

[BigCliff]

Well, I can give you some advice on how to roll cast further, but doing so with a heavy fly out at then end of it makes it a bit tougher.

There's a few ways to get a longer roll cast. You can use a longer rod, create more line speed, or aerialize more line.

One way to get a longer rod for free is to hold the rod higher up in the air while casting, and use a "tomahawk chop" style stroke. Its ugly, and bad technique in most cases, but when you've waded in waist deep or more, its often the best option.

To create more line speed, the easiest way is to use your other hand to grasp the butt of the rod and use it to put more "snap" on the cast. Think of your 9' rod as a spey rod and you might be amazed what it can do. Check out Fly Fishing with Sexyloops Redirection Page for some tutorials on spey casting.

The spey techniques will also enable you to aerialize more line. This allows you to cast further by reducing the amount of fly line that is affected by the "grip" of the surface tension of the water. Just be careful to not aerialize line into the overhead tree in the situation you described earlier.

One other consideration, attempting long roll casts with a short bellied WFF line doesn't work very well. A longer headed WFF line or a DT will work much better for roll/spey casting.

 

[Matttrick]

Yes, actually I was attempting to get more line in the air. But in doing so, my forward cast would kind of jumble down infront of me without unrolling all the way. I guess that means I need to generate more line speed. I'll have to try this double handed spey-like cast. Maybe a new line dressing as well, who knows.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Fishplease]

Well if TOO much line is out, no power reaches the outer most part of the fly line , and so nothing happens. I do roll casts all the time, and I let the line sit on the water, and let the roll cast shoot the line out of the rod.

 

[BigCliff]

A further bit of advice regarding roll casting with a heavy fly: getting it up as close as possible to the surface will work better. You can achieve this by throwing a short roll cast to put the fly on the surface, and then performing your roll cast quickly after it.

As you're looking over pages of advice on spey casting, any mention of how to cast with "heavy tips" applies somewhat to casting with a heavy fly. In both cases you want to get the heavy item up close to the water's surface so the energy of the cast is used for airborne propulsion rather than to bring the sunk item up from the depths.

 

[Joni]

I am fishing the same waters lately. Like cliff said, lift you casting arm straight up and maybe slightly to the side. Lift it to where the line is now hanging slightly behind you, then whip but try to stop at 10:00 to straighten the line then drop the tip.
I usually peel out a bunch of line and shake the tip to get it all out on the water, then I do what I just described.
With heavier flies, you have to speed up the first part to get the fly to the surface.

 

[Frank Whiton]

Hi Matttrick

Well with all of this good help you should be roll casting like a pro. Here is another little trick to increase distance. When you make you forward cast aim it slightly up instead of straight out. Something like when you are doing a standard cast for distance. When you bring you rod back behind your shoulder, have you hand at shoulder level or slightly higher. When you make the forward cast extend you casting arm out and up instead of just out. You may already be doing this but someone may find it useful.

 

[Matttrick]

Yes, I've kind of been playing around with some minor variations to my roll cast. I've actually tried to cast up and out on my forward cast, rather than just out. It definately helps. This weekend, I'm going to go buy some DT line as I think this will also help out my roll cast quite a bit, and if it ever quits raining and flooding here, I might actuallly get to use it!

 

[Frank Whiton]

Matttrick,

Now you are talking. A DT line is just what you need for roll casting. I think you will like it.

 

[hardhat]

When roll casting sometimes I will do a counter clockwise movement with the rod and then in the same motion start the rod back into the roll cast motion. This enables me to get the line out of the water earlier so as I can have the roll airborne longer.

 

[Joni]

When roll casting sometimes I will do a counter clockwise movement with the rod and then in the same motion start the rod back into the roll cast motion. This enables me to get the line out of the water earlier so as I can have the roll airborne longer.

Sounds like you are doing a little SPEY casting.

 

[steely]

Easy as pie. Do you have a fly shop nearby that rents movies? If so I would rent rio's newest spey casting dvd. SImon shows you how to do spey casts with a single handed rod. You should do a snake roll. Basically you just draw a e with your rod. "--" is slow, start accelerating at top arc to where top arc meet "-", accelerate more for bottom arc, and this bottom arc has you in casting postition. Smoothly transition to forward cast with a haul.

As with roll cast, your line and a couple of feet of line should be on water, directly between you and target. Well I guess unlike roll cast only a couple of feet of line should be on water. Too much line on water will grasp at line, but you need some line to load your rod.

Hey all,

I recently encountered a situation I, as a newbie to fly fishing, did not know the answer to. I was fishing a small lake/pond with still water for large mouth bass. While fishing, I was out in waist deep water. There was an over hanging tree above me, and brush on the bank maybe 10 feet behind me. I was practicing my roll cast as I thought this to be an excellent situation. My issue was that I just could not get the fly out far enough. I was able to cast in the 40-50 ft. range with my roll cast, by pulling out more line before beginning my cast. Then I could pay it all out on the forward part of the roll cast, but to much line(or slack) meant the line was unrolling all the way. But I couldn't use a back cast and haul more line out b/c of the limited space. This was on my six weight rod. I was using a fairly large clouser, probably a #4. Any recommendations? I was try to get the fly out to maybe another 20 ft, as there was a partially submerged boat and there were some large fish in that area hitting the surface. I need some poppers.

:army: :frogdance :army:

 

[racine]

Forgive me for asking but isn't a 50 much less a 40 ft roll cast a good one? Maybe I've just learned wrong but I would like to learn to roll out to 50 ft as well. Is the steeple cast a possible practical alternative to the roll?
Inquiring Minds Want To Know,
Racine

 

[GeorgeMcFly]

I need to practice my roll cast way more! I always get a pile of line on the water. never straightens out. maybe I am not aiming high enough and just letting it fall in a heap before it unrolls. also I never practiced it that much. I feel ya on the high water. and now a extra problem for me. ice!

 

[randyflycaster]

Another technique that I learned from watching Chris Kornich of the ACA is to begin the roll cast just before the fly stops moving.

Randy Kadish

 

[Frank Whiton]

Hi to all,

I think Racine has made a very good point. I was thinking the same thing. 50' is a pretty good roll cast with a WF line.

Matttrick, I don't know what the circumstances are but here is something you might try. It sounds like you are wading straight out and then trying to reach the target in a straight line from your position. It sounds like you have some clearance behind you. I would wade to one side. The right side for a right hander and use a side arm cast. By moving further down the bank you will increase your back clearance. The sidearm cast works like an over head cast and you will be able to shoot some line. Your cast will be a little bit longer but in the long run it may give you more distance. I use a sidearm cast a lot under trees.

With practice you can cast sidearm almost parallel to the shore and then with your final delivery direct the fly more away from the bank. This style of cast is not a long cast but works pretty well with practice. The trick is to position yourself to one side of the target and adjust until you are in the sweet spot where you can reach the target with your final delivery. I learned the side arm cast years ago when it was the only way to make a curve cast.

Frank

 

[Joni]

Seconds on the side cast, plus it is awesome in the wind.

 

[Matttrick]

Ahhh, well I haven't yet gotten a chance to re-practice my roll cast, or any cast for that matter. Due to circumstances, I was fishing out of a covered boat house all summer w/ a spinning rod. I ended up getting a 4 wt TFO finesse rod which made all the difference in the world in terms of roll casting. It's a thing of beauty! I can roll cast a wff line w/o to many issues. I actually have a DT 4wt line on order right now. I can't wait to get it out on the river for the Sandie run next month.

The right rod made such a big difference. I learned for once that my technique isn't actually that bad (and getting better). I'm intrigued by this side cast technique though, I will be trying it out.

Now, if I could only cast my 8wt TiCrX a mile, I might me happy.

 

[Frank Whiton]

I ended up getting a 4 wt TFO finesse rod which made all the difference in the world in terms of roll casting.


Hi Matttrick,

Your statement is exactly why I don't recommend fly rods that cost less than $100. There may be some that cast great but I have never seen one.

One thing you might try with your TiCr X is to use a SA GPX fly line it is 1/2 line overweight and will help with your very stiff TiCr X. You also need to have 40' or so of fly line out to help flex the rod. Both of these things will help you better load your rod.

Frank