Salt Water fly cast

[Red Owl]

I learned the 10 O'Clock to 12 O'Clock way to cast a fly line which is okay on a little trout stream but I see these photos of salt water casters with their arms way back and I have no idea how to make that type of cast- which I assume is done to get more distance. In any event any explanation or sources I can study would help a lot. Thanks.

 

[Jackster]

Generally you lengthen your stroke length as you lengthen your cast.

wjc... come on in here and straighten this guy out. You've lived the trout to salt life and should have some great first-hand advice.

 

[gatortransplant]

In saltwater casting you're going to see a lot more double-hauling. If you watch videos of guys double hauling, you'll often see the casting stroke getting more into the 9 and 3 areas and further.

If you're targeting bonefish, tarpon and the like, double hauling is going to be crucial unless you're a wonder caster. Check it out! Orvis' Pete Kutzer has a great video on double-hauling, it's worth watching.

 

[silver creek]

What you are describing is the "Low Elbow" style of Lefty Kreh. The style you learned is the elbow forward style.

Since Steve Rajeff, one of if not the best caster in the world, uses the elbow forward style, you might do better to improve the style you are using than to learn a new style. I think it is not the style of casting but the mastery of the style that determines the distance you can cast.

"This is the arm style of people who have most influenced casting in California, including Jimmy Green, Mel Krieger and Steve and Tim Rajeff."

Both the Elbow Forward style of Steve Rajeff and the Low Elbow style of Lefty Kreh are described by Al Kyte in Fall 2002 issue of The Loop.

Lefty Kreh claims his style is easier on the body, however, studies have shown this is not the case. There are fewer injuries of the elbow and wrist with the overhead style compared to the sidearm low elbow style.

"A team of researchers is studying the biomechanics of fly-casting at Montana State University, Bozeman (MSU)….. Elbow pain was significantly less for the overhead style compared with the elliptical style. Wrist pain was significantly less for those who used the overhead style instead of either the elliptical or sidearm styles."

http://www.working-well.org/articles/pdf/Fishing.pdf

If you want to learn from Lefty, he has a Casting DVD and a book [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Casting-Lefty-Kreh/dp/081170369X"]Amazon.com: Casting with Lefty Kreh (9780811703697): Lefty Kreh, Jay Nichols: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Ic5Vm7DhL.@@AMEPARAM@@51Ic5Vm7DhL[/ame].

 

[Rip Tide]

I learned the 10 O'Clock to 12 O'Clock way to cast a fly line which is okay on a little trout stream but I see these photos of salt water casters with their arms way back and I have no idea how to make that type of cast- which I assume is done to get more distance. In any event any explanation or sources I can study would help a lot. Thanks.

basically the theory says that the further the rod tip travels during the "speed up and stop" the tighter the loop, and the tighter the loop the less air resistance.
You can read more about it in Ed Jaworowski's book The Cast

---------- Post added at 05:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:07 PM ----------

It's a shame that there's no video for Mark Sedotti's Sayonara Sling. He's a casting freak.
You should google him (any hot links would be to other forums). And if he's ever at a club meeting or show near you, go see.

 

[Guest1]

I have a Canadian friend who can cast into the next zipcode, Red Owl. Some of the discussions about his casting may help you with figuring this out, Look in the fly cast for the threads with Amazing Natural Caster. He has the 3 O'clock - 9 O'clock thing down pretty well. There are some good videos on you tube also.

 

[grassonfly]

for saltwater to maximize distance i use a 10 o clock to a 3 oclock so my line is released high and it has more time to travel

 

[Rip Tide]

I don't know if you can make this out, but in this picture my reel is facing toward my right, not to the front. If I were to continue to roll my wrist out and extend my arm back I could reach back all the way toward the dunes for maximum distance.
You want the rod tip to stay on plane pointed toward the sky the whole time, not back to horizontal

 

[randyflycaster]

I believe Lefty's method is easier for most casters, as it will help prevent your fly from hitting the rod tip. Just make sure your right-foot, assuming you're casting right-handed, is behind your left foot.

Also, if you use a drift move, using Lefty's - rather than lowering the rod to, let's say, 2 o'clock - will help prevent you from adding slack in the line.

To me, one of the big problems with Lefty's method is changing casting trajectories, but that rarely has to be done when casting in saltwater.

Also, when I tried casting Lefty's way I couldn't get my body to fully rotate.

Randy

 

[Rip Tide]

What Lefty says: (principle #5)

For long or more difficult casts, you will need to bring the rod well behind your body on the back cast. In order to do this, you should rotate your casting thumb away from its normal position on top of the rod about 45 degrees away from your body before initiating the back cast, and then take your forearm (never the wrist) straight back 180 degrees from the target

 

[Red Owl]

Well- I don't want to practice the wrong way and develop bad habits. If I did the old 10 to 12 motion and ended up like what I see in the photos- it seems I would drop the rod tip and lose the force of the back cast. Maybe the best thing is to team up with someone who can show me. Is what I am seeing more of a side arm cast?

 

[Rip Tide]

Is what I am seeing more of a side arm cast?

I guess you could say that. You're sweeping the rod out around your side and turning it 180* as you do it. You always want the tip up though and the reel to stay on the same plane, about level with your chin.

 

[swirlchaser]

In the salt I generally carry more line in the air or I'm carrying a line with a heavy head. I don't know if it is the correct way to cast but when I'm really pushing for distance my cast opens up pretty far. Here I am pushing for 100. You can see what Rip is talking about, the reel is turned out, arm is laid back but still on plane

 

[wjc]

Well- I don't want to practice the wrong way and develop bad habits......Maybe the best thing is to team up with someone who can show me.

I think both are good ideas. It is very hard to improve or learn different techniques from descriptions, unless you are already an advanced caster. Where do you live? And what do you plan on fishing for?

The best thing, of course, would be to take a lesson from a casting instructor first, then practice, read and watch videos.

The second best thing would be to take a video of your casting - not the line going out, but of you taken from the side with at least half of the rod in the frame. Then post it up here.

PS: Nice photo, Swirl. Looks like you are doing very well indeed to me.

 

[silver creek]

Here are three videos by Lefty Kreh, Steve Rajeff and George Revel, a certified master instructor and distance casting champion.

Lefty Kreh's aids to better fly casting - YouTube

Steve Rajeff How To Cast A Fly Rod - YouTube

Advanced Fly Casting Tips: Adding Distance To Your Cast - Leland Fly Fishing Outfitters - YouTube

 

[swirlchaser]

P.S: Nice photo, Swirl. Looks like you are doing very well indeed to me.

Thanks Jim,
I just got on the water today for the first time with a switch rod. Just when I get some consistency in my cast I throw a wrench into the works

 

[wjc]

Ha! I know exactly what you mean, Swirl. I've had a tendency all my life to sabotage my own best efforts! There are just too many things to do, try and experience, that's the problem.

 

[chefben4]

I am new to the saltwater thing and actually take lessons when I arrive before I go on a fishing trip to the salt. My most recent trip was to the keys and of course it was windy. The guide taught me the Belgium cast.. how do you guys feel about it? As a beginner it was easy to pick up.. is it an alternative to a double haul? It seems I get more line speed but maybe less control..

 

[gatortransplant]

I haven't heard of the Belgium cast, so I'm looking forward to hearing back from the experts on this one! Thanks for reviving the thread Ben, I'll be needing all the help I can get, come May...

 

[swirlchaser]

I am new to the saltwater thing and actually take lessons when I arrive before I go on a fishing trip to the salt. My most recent trip was to the keys and of course it was windy. The guide taught me the Belgium cast.. how do you guys feel about it? As a beginner it was easy to pick up.. is it an alternative to a double haul? It seems I get more line speed but maybe less control..

It's basically an oval cast. Works well if your on a boat or a dock.

---------- Post added at 02:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:05 PM ----------

Sorry, I wasn't very specific there. When casting single handed in the salt it's sometimes difficult to keep line speed up especially when fighting wind or carrying alot of line outside the tip. The Belgium or oval cast helps maintain line speed. I use this cast with my switch rod when doing twohanded, overhead casts since I don't have a third hand to haul with. The 11' rod and using a short head allows this cast to work in the surf however if you try this with a 9-10' rod and a 40' head on the beach you will hit the sand behind you. Hope that's a better explaination.