Should I be able to cast my 3wt as far as my 5wt?

[flyfisher117]

5wt specs:
St. Croix Triumph 9' 5wt Mod/fast action
Cabelas prestige or prestige plus reel (if it matters)
Cabelas Prestige plus line WF 5F
I suck at casting, I cant get anywhere near my backing (did shoot some line and almost hit backing one day) but for my fishing I feel my casting is proficient.

I was out today testing my new

Winston GVX 7'6" 3wt Fast action (pending I didnt sevearly mess up while building it)
Ross Flyrise reel (if it matters again)
Allen 3wt Double taper line.

I could not for the life of me cast very far, I dont want to guesstimate because I suck at guessing but I want to say my best cast was MAYBE 35 feet, ok so yes that is fine for spring creeks but Shouldnt I be able to cast farther? Am I just reaching the max for the rod?

With my 5wt its nothing for me to hit 50+ feet. During my flyfishing class at school my teacher wanted to challenge me so he went and stood about 70 feet away and told me to hit him. While casting towards him (uphill) I was able to shoot the line and drop it about 8-9 feet from his toes (plenty good casting for me) but with the 3wt after I get 35-40 feet of line out I loose all momentum I then either snap flys off or the line isnt keeping enough speed to stay up off the ground or out of the water. Even single hauling it (havent gotten in rhythm to double haul) I cant get any farther.


I have a feeling that it is the line, the Allen line does not smoothly slide through the guides and shooting any thing much more than 3-4 feet is not possible without a nice heavy bugger on the end. Im looking at replacing it because I found a slice in the middle of the line (first time using it too )

Sorry for rambling just trying to figure out where the problem is. If anyone can help thanks.

 

[pegboy1]

Practice Practice Practice........Should be able to cast a 3wt quite a bit further than that. Sounds like a timing thing.

 

[ausablebrown]

I wouldn't expect all 80' of you line from that rod, but I have cast the GVX and it is pretty strong in the 4wt. 35' is kinda short if you are in fact guesstimating right. I'd be happy with 60' and wouldn't expect much more with a 7'6"3wt. I really gave-up 3wt fishing because I tend to fold them in half while trying to cast. Maybe stick a tape measure out there and get a good figure; you may be guesing 10 or 15' short which if that is the case you are reacing upwards to 50'.

 

[flyfisher117]

Just extending my 30' tape it looks to be about the right distance, 35-40 feet is about what I was hitting. Ill try to get out on the lawn in a few days after this thunder boomer goes over and see what I was actually hitting.

Could it be the DT line isnt loading properly? Im sure my timing isnt the best but I fished it by "feeling" (like I do with my other rod) the rod bend.

 

[Guest1]

Can you video tape your cast? You should be able to get a farther cast than that. Not as far as you can in general with a five wt. but farther than that.

 

[Davo]

Without watching your cast it is hard to say. Best guess is you are getting ahead of the rod which is why your loosing the moment as you described. Slow down and don't try to muscle distance out of it. 3wt are slow rods. If you try to hard the rod can't work. Think more graceful strokes not harder strokes. Let the rod do the work!!

 

[fredaevans]

Can you video tape your cast? You should be able to get a farther cast than that. Not as far as you can in general with a five wt. but farther than that.

+1

But two things cross my mind, but back to that in a second. First, with 'equal lines' you will cast a bit further with a 5wt vs a 3wt. It's the extra 'grains' in the line that make the difference.

But back to the two thoughts. First, the description of the rod says its a 'shorty' and that will make a heck of a difference in how far you can cast. Secondly, a short rod with a DT will also be a limiting factor. If 'distance' is needed, go to a WF line and you'll see a significant increase in distance

 

[team7x]

You could overline it by a half or so, BUT question:? Why would you need to reach your backing casting a 3-weight? Clearly you're not fishing in salt. Accuracy is the key. Even on big rivers I'm hard pressed to understand why you would need to throw the entire line??

 

[flyfisher117]

Im working on getting a decent video camera to film myself, Ive wanted to film myself for a few months now so I could see my cast and see if there is anything I can do to improve it. Ill see what I can do.

No need in the world to cast into my backing with the 3wt, I just would like to know that if I NEED a little distance I can achieve a little bit more than what I'm doing now. I also want to get the most out of my rod.



I actually think I may have been overpowering and muscling the rod, Im so used to the 5wt and how heavy and stiff it is that the 3wt is like a noodle compared to it.

 

[Davo]

I actually think I may have been overpowering and muscling the rod, Im so used to the 5wt and how heavy and stiff it is that the 3wt is like a noodle compared to it.

Don't worry it happens to everyone. I have to check myself when I switch from my 7wt streamer set up to my 3wt. It's fun to pull the 3wt out for some finicky risers in the side channels from time to time but adjustments have to be made.

 

[gatortransplant]

I can understand the desire to squeeze a little more distance out of the 3wt. I love fishing my 3wts, and though they're often most used on smaller water, I know that I have had times when I've needed to throw longer casts to rising fish or to nymph a far seam. The 3wt is going to appear at first as a huge change from the 5wt. Since you're not only dealing with a change in action/flex but a change in wt, as Davo said, you're going to have change up your casting stroke speed a bit to match the rod. While feeling the rod may help you find the cast, in my short tenure as a fly-caster I've also had success pairing the feel with watching the line straighten out behind me to time my cast. As Fred said, you will likely be better off with a weight-forward line rather than a DT. On top of that, I was told that the Allen lines tend to be a half a line weight lighter (never weighed them myself, but had the inclination when casting on a matching rod and attempting to go for longer distances). While you can certainly cast a lighter line just fine once you get the action sorted out, you would likely be better off with a definite 3wt WF line, and put the extra money into getting a better line. The higher-end lines do legitimately get you more distance and it tends to feel better casting them. If you're on a budget, see if Orvis still has any of their Wonderlines on clearance, since they released their new line series they've been clearing out their previous line series. If they still have them, you'll get a heck of a deal.

Most importantly, good luck! I'm sure you'll get it ironed out and get to throwing those longer ropes soon enough

 

[ausablebrown]

Like Gator said, try to watch your back-cast until it completely unrolls backwards. You'll want to make sure it loads or completely unrolls behind you before you begin to accelerate forward. I'm not a casting instructor by any means, but the best way I have heard a cast simplified was into three parts. A back cast, which is an acceleration to a stop; the STOP until the line unrolls and loads the rod, and then a forward cast that is a mirror image of the back cast, accelerate to a stop.

I also exagerate my arm motions when I'm trying to reach with a short rod. I try to allow my arm to be an extension of the rod and move all the way down to my shoulder, rather than just keeping my elbow tucked like Lefty prescribes. I can pick line up off of the water, and carry line in the air like my rod is a foot longer by elevating my casting hand a little, and pushing it far behind me during the back cast, and ending my forward cast with a stretch forward also. Again, I'm not a casting instructor so if the way I do this is detrimental to good casting form maybe someone can correct me as well, but I've found that this allows me to reach without overpowering a soft rod.

 

[flyfisher117]

Downright poured all night and all day today so wasnt able to make it outside to film myself.


If someone gets this quick how is Orvis Wonderline? Found it online on sale for $30, price is good enough Might have to re-outfit the 5wt if it is good line?

 

[ausablebrown]

Downright poured all night and all day today so wasnt able to make it outside to film myself.


If someone gets this quick how is Orvis Wonderline? Found it online on sale for $30, price is good enough Might have to re-outfit the 5wt if it is good line?

I'm using one, its half price at $30. I did have a welded loop fray off of one of my wonderlines in a hurry (probably in the first 10 times out), but Orvis sent me a replacement HYDROS line for no charge. I've had several and no complaints.

 

[flyfisher117]

Just went ahead and ordered a Wonderline, it was that or a Cabelas brand line.

I dont know if this video is worth showing, my camera sucks and I was not able to get any video far enough away for you to see the loops and the line but here is my "form". I did a bit of casting with both the 3wt and 5 wt. 3wt I wasnt able to cast across the little run off pond im next too, 5wt I was casting so far I was hitting the bushes behind me (wasnt even close to that with the 3wt).

I noticed that I tend to cast with my rod/arm slightly off at an angle, instead of the rod running perfectly parallel with my body I angle it away from myself a little bit, is this bad? Also noticed I may be letting the tip drop a little too much on my back cast.

Sorry for the dog wanting his few seconds of fame.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9UL8_IQdXk]Fly cast - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Davo]

Well it is tough to see whats going on. Can't really see the rod or the line. But just from looking at your arm I do see a couple things that might help. The stroke I would want to see with a 3wt is when you first pick the line up to start casting. If you watch it you'll see a long slow stroke with the emphasis at the very end. After that you go right to a short power stroke on you fore and backstrokes. Keep that longer slower stroke through out your false casts. Those short power strokes work well on medium and fast action rods and not well on slow action ones. Copy that initial start stroke through out your cast and you should have better results.

Slow action rods are also referred to as full flex rods. When loading a full flex or slow rod you want the rod to flex the full length of the rod. A short power stroke will only load the upper portion of the rod. You need the longer smooth acceleration to load the whole rod effectively.

 

[flyfisher117]

Video does suck but figured since I uploaded it just as well post it.

Ok I am a bit confused though: You mentioned that short powerful strokes work with fast/med fast rods and slow long strokes work for slow action rods. If my 3wt is a fast action then wouldnt I want a fast power stroke?

 

[Davo]

I've never seen a fast action 3wt. In general most 1-3wts are slower rods. But I guess a 3wt could be made in tip flex or fast action. I'm not familiar with the specific rod you have. From watching you cast your stroke with the 5wt is more of a short fast action motion. You slow it down some on the 3wt. I find with my 3wt it takes a rather exaggerated stroke to get the most out of it.

I might not be doing the best job of explaining either. I do much better teaching clients in person, when I can see what they are doing and demonstrate what they need to do. Are there any Trout Unlimited chapters near you or some other fly fishing groups where you can find someone to work with on it. If not all you need to do is keep playing with it, when you find the right casting stroke you'll feel it.

 

[flyfisher117]

Its a Winston GVX and Winston claims they are all fast action rods. I did build it but I followed guide spacing exactly to what winston said and Theres no way I used enough flex coat on the guides to slow it down into a slow action.

 

[Davo]

I missed that in your first post. Just sent you a PM. Let us know how the Wonderline works. With the fast action the same stroke you use for the 5wt should work for the 3wt.