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Thread: Less force, more power. Contradiction or not?

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Less force, more power. Contradiction or not?

    By no far flung stretch of any delusional imagination am I a casting expert, but I did have to translate fly casting into terms a friend of mine could understand - maybe it will help.

    Fly casting has nothing to do with Horsepower and is all about utilizing the Torque the engine is producing and shifting smoothly just before the torque is about to drop off.

    In this analogy, horsepower is how much force you are applying to the fly rod and torque is how much force the rod is transferring to the line... it all comes down to a smooth, quick shift just before it's too late. (Horse power sells cars and fly rods, and torque wins races).

    [Think about feathering the clutch quickly and then smashing the gas peddle to the floor and then waiting for the engine to rev up to where the torque is just about to drop off then feather the clutch again as you foot slides off the side of the gas peddle, shift and smash the gas peddle back down and wait again.]



    and repeat with the fore cast - put power into the rod (haul and then snap the rod up/back) and let the rod have time to power the line and the line to move then repeat.]
    Last edited by random user; 05-29-2013 at 11:11 AM.
    I'm currently out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message, and if you would like to reach me by phone, please hang up now.

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  3. #12
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    Question Re: Less force, more power. Contradiction or not?

    Reading through this tread again, a great one, this one line (original post) caught my attention: "We fished 10ft rods with long leaders and short casts. Distance was not the problem. Accuracy, presentation, line not landing too straight, leader landing in a mess, tangles, those were the problems I experienced."

    In my experience, long leaders and short casts can be a non-starter unless you're a pretty darned good with a fly rod to start with. Just not enough line mass (grains) behind the leader? That would go a long way in explaining the 'a mess, tangles, etc.' Not enough 'energy' comming off the end of the fly line to handle a long leader. Add a heavy fly of some sort and this combination can just get worse.
    When wealth is lost, nothing is lost; when health is lost, something is lost; when character is lost, all is lost. - Billy Graham"

  4. #13
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    Default Re: Less force, more power. Contradiction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by williamhj View Post
    I find the harder I work while casting (muscling or forcing the rod) the worse my cast tends to be. When I relax and focus on timing I tend to cast better. If I force or muscle the cast it tends to fall apart
    As a horrible caster, I usually don't have much to contribute. But, since this is about bad casting, williamhj described me to a tee! I know exactly what your guide meant. I get all anxious that my cast isn't far enough, straight enough, etc., so I try HARDER! Bad mistake


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #14
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    Default Re: Less force, more power. Contradiction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by bpeter View Post
    Last week I was on a guided fishing trip on the White River in Arkansas. Our guide (excellent) had some comments on my casting technique, or lack there of. Here is a summary of what he observed;

    A. I use too much force
    B. But I don't have enough power
    C. The fly makes a swishing sound, which it shouldn't do
    D. The line doesn't have enough speed.
    E. I don't load the rod
    F. I jerk the rod too much

    Also

    G. I stop too early in the forward cast
    H. I have too stiff wrists [I thought wrist movements should be as small as possible...]
    I. The backcast leaves a lot to be desired (unspecified what...)


    Can all these observations really all be simultaneously true? For instance, can A. and B. both be true at the same time? Likewise for C. and D.? Etc. etc.

    We fished 10ft rods with long leaders and short casts. Distance was not the problem. Accuracy, presentation, line not landing too straight, leader landing i a mess, tangles, those were the problems I experienced.

    A part for casting problems, I would love to go back to Arkansas again some time. Great week of fishing.
    ------------
    bpeter

    Every time a fish took the fly did this guide say "HIT IT"?

    Paul

    Nature, Cheaper than Therapy

    LIVE TODAY

  6. #15
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    Default Re: Less force, more power. Contradiction or not?

    Grandpa used to say "Get your butt behind you!"

    First thing I do is check my stance. Get comfortable. Then check my grip (remember the scene from "A River Runs Through it?").

    My biggest problems are on the back cast. A weak back cast= BIG problems of all sorts. A good, strong, sharp back cast and I find the (fore?) cast is just aiming and guiding the fly to where I want it to go.

    In short: It's all in the back cast.

    I've only fished for 10 or so years, so I'm not instructing here, just passing on my experience.

    My advice is worth what you paid for it.

    CAB

  7. #16
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    Default Re: Less force, more power. Contradiction or not?

    This is a very helpful thread. I should give every post a "like".

    I'm no expert or instructor, but one of the best tips I got when I was starting out (and I'm still learning) is to "let the rod do the work". Easy to say, difficult to learn. Part of that is to make sure the rod loads correctly.

    And what other posters have said about the back cast is dead on, in my limited experience.

    Scott

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  9. #17

    Default Re: Less force, more power. Contradiction or not?

    We are just guessing at what the problem(s) is/are.

    I suggest posting a video. A video from the side of your casting arm will tell us a lot about your cast.
    Regards,

    Silver



    "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

  10. Default Re: Less force, more power. Contradiction or not?

    Thanks for all helpful replies!

    It seems that everyone agree that, indeed, one person can produce these casting errors in a single cast.

    I will take slow, careful steps with this, try one thing at a time. Although I don't have the rod in question to practice with (it was the guide's rod) I have similar issues with my 10' 7wt rod. First step will be to try to feel the load of the rod and then go on from there.

    ---------- Post added at 12:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:39 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by imxer View Post
    ------------
    bpeter

    Every time a fish took the fly did this guide say "HIT IT"?

    Paul
    Most of the time he would say "FISH" (often followed by "You missed it!"). I can't remember him saying "hit it".

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  12. #19
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    Default Re: Less force, more power. Contradiction or not?

    Large line weight rods such as Stiff 6's and above do take a bit more effort to load and cast correctly. They are powerful sticks but you typically have to have enough line out to load the rod adequately.

    One of the largest problems with a heavy stick is the load. Keep it in mind and you will do great.

  13. #20

    Default Re: Less force, more power. Contradiction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by cochise View Post
    Large line weight rods such as Stiff 6's and above do take a bit more effort to load and cast correctly. They are powerful sticks but you typically have to have enough line out to load the rod adequately.

    One of the largest problems with a heavy stick is the load. Keep it in mind and you will do great.
    Line speed will also help load the rod but the proper use of line speed is a real challenge for most people to achieve.
    You can actually make proper casts using line speeds from slow to very fast. In fact, that it's good practice to cast a given length of line from very slow to ultra fast while maintaining good loops. It can and will wear you out but it is sometimes handy to able to throw good loops at any speed the situation demands.

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