Tips for high wind

[nevadanstig]

Wind is a constant here. I feel like I've gotten pretty used to it. I'm decent at working a single haul and slowly improving a double. But the other day in high winds, I was having trouble getting smaller flies to turn over. My loops in the fly line looked great, and the leader was turning over decently about half way down, but the flies themselves were getting caught in the wind. Casting upstream into a headwind, the leader would basically fold in half about 2/3 way down and the flies would actually land downstream of nearly half the leader.
I haven't had this problem before. But with winter, I was fishing smaller/lighter flies than usual.
Anything I can do to help this situation, or is it just part of fishing into a headwind? Gusts were around 45-50

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[eastfly66]

Good Morning Stig,

Casting light gear in the wind is trouble no matter how you cook it if your trying for any kind of distance. There are a host of good videos to help and below is one. I generally bring the line under the rod on the backcast and low to the water but with a long fine leader it is still tough. The Italian stlye of casting may be a good choice , I don't do it but have read a tad. Take a look at other videos by Capt. Chris Myers and Paul Arden just to name a couple.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvfb5mWYeJo&list=PLYPShw1gvcq5z6YXHCTqJiVkRB5NRj9ek

 

[axle27]

Chuck and duck...

 

[plecain]

Something that works for me is what I would call an 'exaggerated stop'.

Just before you stop the forward cast, give the rod an extra punch of speed. A haul here will make it even better.

I fish a lot of 0-2 weight rods. This helps me a lot in the wind.

 

[wjc]

Gusts were around 45-50

I would either cast perpendicular to the wind or do something else.

Just for kicks, I've false cast directly into sustained winds not much higher than those those speeds using nothing but forward casts without the fly ever touching the ground.

Added Another thing you can do if you insist, and are using a very responsive rod, is to use a high backcast and do a quick 'Pull Back" after the stop on the presentation along with a short, quick third haul, then immediately lower the tip. This is a good way to get a collision with the fly and tip, however, so practice first with fluff w/o a hook in it. A safer way is to cast sidearm with the line as close to the water as you can get it.

 

[silver creek]

First, I would shorten up the leader and use a shorter and thicker tippet. That will preserve the forward momentum.

Second, I would go up in line weight. A higher weight fly line has a greater mass to line diameter so you get more forward momentum and kinetic energy to drag ratio.

Third, I would use an intermediate fly line. It will float when treated with floatant. Again the ratio of momentum to drag is increased so you can cast further. An alternative is to use a wind cutter fly line taper that is forward weighted.

Fourth, you MUST have a tight loop.

Fifth, you must have an effective double haul.

Sixth, learn to shoot line into the backcast as will as the forward cast.

Casting into into the wind requires all the skills of being able to distance cast.

Then use a sidearm REVERSE Belgian Cast, higher on the backcast and lower on the forward cast. Look at this video but you want an oval casting motion with the backcast a higher and the forward cast a lower rather than a lower backcast and higher forward cast as the in the video.

DVD Review: "Taming the Wind" on Vimeo

 

[Rip Tide]

First, I would shorten up the leader and use a shorter and thicker tippet. That will preserve the forward momentum.

Second, I would go up in line weight. A higher weight fly line has a greater mass to line diameter so you get more forward momentum and kinetic energy to drag ratio.

Third, I would use an intermediate fly line. It will float when treated with floatant. Again the ratio of momentum to drag is increased so you can cast further. An alternative is to use a wind cutter fly line taper that is forward weighted.

Going beyond what silver said
When you hand tie your own leaders (which I highly recommend) most formulas result in a leader that is basically 60% butt, 20% mid-section, and 20% tippet.
If you use a wind specific formula that's 70% butt, 10% mid, and 20%, your leader is going to turn over far easier.

When I fish in high winds in the surf, I go to my heaviest rod matched with a full sinking line because the sinking lines are about half the diameter of a floating line and therefore cut through the wind much easier.
This is not my favorite way to fish but it gets the job done.

I once took a casting seminar with Bob Clouser that was specificly about wind and weight and I remember asking him about what to do when you have high winds blowing over your casting shoulder.
He looked at me like I was an idiot and said 2 words.... "You move"
I thought that was pretty good advise

 

[james w 3 3]

Let's think out of the box here, and take into account where you are.

I run into the same wind issues fishing the eastern sierras. Here's what I've done this last year . . . Shorter leader, clear floating fly line. Airflo Ridge Clear. I started down this road because the wind on my favorite east side lakes can be a huge pain. Turned out to work even better than I ever thought it would, as the line is now effectively all leader! It's on my river 4wt rig now too, not just stillwater .

I have not yet dialed in just how short my fluoro leaders will be, but I'd bet you'll cast a 7' leader in the wind way better than a 9' one.

 

[lake flyer]

I pretty much do everything that Silver Creek says above, except for greasing and using an intermediate line.

 

[silver creek]

Before plastic fly lines, fly lines were silk.

Silk fly lines are thinner for the same "weight" than the floating plastic fly lines. So they are denser and heavier than water. In fact, they are intermediate weight fly lines. Untreated, they will sink but treated they will float.

Just like silk line, a treated plastic intermediate fly line will float and this has been a way to fight wind ever since fly fishers began to fish silk fly lines.

This is a fact that is unknown to many modern day fly fishers, who have grown up with plastic lines; but those who have fished with silk know that heavier than water intermediate fly lines do float when treated and they cut through the wind better than the plastic floating lines.

Trout Stalking (Or Discovering Silk Fly Lines) Bamboo Part 86- Week 111 Fly Angler's OnLine

"The Wind

The thinner diameter of the silk line is immediately noticeable as you line it on your rod for the first time. If your rod took a PVC DT5F and you use a DT5 silk you will be surprised at the difference as you start false casting; you might even need to go down to a DT4 because the decreased air resistance makes loading so much easier. The front taper has more weight and starts to load the rod almost immediately. As more line is worked out, you'll notice that less effort is required to sustain it in the air. And if a wind comes up, you'll be able to cut through it with greater effect than ever before. Now start shooting the line. The noise may be a bit disconcerting at first; the rustling, hiss as the braid murmurs through the guides. The shoot, however, will make you soon forget that.

Approaches to Floatation

The specific gravity of a PVC line is less than 1.0; silk lines run 1.2 – 1.4. Yet, the silk floats higher. This is possible because the lines use different approaches to floatation. Modern PVC floating fly lines achieve buoyancy through displacement. Archimede's Principle at work, the line must displace a sufficient volume of water to compensate for its weight; and to do this it must settle deeply into the water. The silk line relies upon the same principle as the floating artificial fly … surface tension. The dressing applied to the line repels the water, floating the line high on the meniscus. Thus, the silk line is easier to lift from the water, and creates less surface disturbance in drawing it back. This is especially evident in the ease of rollcasting."


Why use silk fly lines? ¶ Hird Mentality

”The benefits of silk lines that I located online were as follows:

Being thinner than equivalent modern lines, they slice through wind efficiently. Silk lines will either float or sink, depending on the application of grease. (Without grease, they act as intermediate lines.)”

 

[weiliwen]

Not really a casting solution, but a timing one: A few years ago, I finally got around to putting my pontoon in the back of my pickup and trucked it to a local mountain lake. I got there and the wind was so high that this 10 acre lake had whitecaps on it. There was a 20 foot band of mud extending from shore where the waves had churned up the lake bottom. Launching the pontoon was out of the questions, but I didn't want to go home. I had to cast nearly directly into the wind, not ideal.

What I did was this. I noticed that even in high winds, there are momentary lapses in the wind, when the speed slows down to only about 10MPH for a few seconds before the next gust hit. I held my nymph in my hand, and launched it during those less windy moments. It usually worked so I could get my fly out about 5 feet past the mud; in fact, that mud line was money, as the trout seemed to be cruising it, perhaps picking up insects kicked up by the surf.

So, pick your moments to cast for those short intervals between gusts.

 

[mikechell]

I know this is not the "right" solution ... but for me, fishing is more important than "fly" fishing. When the wind is too high for comfortable fly fishing, I go to conventional gear. I can use a bait caster or spin fishing rig in higher winds than I can a fly rod.

If you're reducing your fishing methods to "fly" only ... I feel like there's a lot of fishing situations you're missing.

 

[silver creek]

I may be wrong but I think Nevadanstig was looking for ways to compensate for the wind when dry fly fishing, at least that was my read on his question.

One can always short line nymph or indicator nymph in the wind, or chuck and duck as Axle27 suggested.

Those would be my solutions if it was really too windy to cast a dry fly.

 

[nevadanstig]

I may be wrong but I think Nevadanstig was looking for ways to compensate for the wind when dry fly fishing, at least that was my read on his question.

One can always short line nymph or indicator nymph in the wind, or chuck and duck as Axle27 suggested.

Those would be my solutions if it was really too windy to cast a dry fly.

I was nymphing, but with small midges and nymphs, nothing with much meat. I think the biggest fly I had on was #18 pt.

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---------- Post added at 11:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 PM ----------

I know this is not the "right" solution ... but for me, fishing is more important than "fly" fishing. When the wind is too high for comfortable fly fishing, I go to conventional gear. I can use a bait caster or spin fishing rig in higher winds than I can a fly rod.

If you're reducing your fishing methods to "fly" only ... I feel like there's a lot of fishing situations you're missing.

I'm a fan of all types of fishing. But I guess I'm a little particular too. For me, if you're going for trout in a small river or streams, it's flies. But I love attacking ponds and small lakes for bass with a baitcaster. Been known to have too much to drink while sitting on a dock going after catfish and mud bugs too

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[eastfly66]

I came across this while researching another topic and thought I would add it to the conversation for comment:

"I believe, that casting a heavier line into the wind is what works best. Of course there will come a point when the line will be too heavy. But uplining one AFFTA class instead of underlining one AFFTA class always offered me increased distance especially into a headwind.

Casting a lighter line might offer me a slight increase in the rate of acceleration. At the same time this increase in line speed will result in air resistance increasing in square. Therefore I don't think here is much to win in summary.
But using the heavier line offers me a better relation between lines mass and its amount of surface. Less surface means less air drag/friction. Force = mass times acceleration. Acceleration might be slightly reduced but mass will be significant increased. In summary I think I provide significant increased force against the air resistance by uplining. And again the air resistance will not be increased in square here.

I might be wrong, but my personal casting results are very clear: Uplining increases my max distance, not only but especially against a head wind."
- Bernd Ziesche

Source of comment:

The Board • View topic - casting into headwind

 

[fishmandoug]

It is nice to have a specialty line for windy situations. I have a Rio outbound short that works great fir this. I am mostly smallmouth fishing so it is no big deal to throw streamers. When it kicks up around me either fish this line or a small river with lots of trees to help shelter wind.

When I am trout fishing I might go with a 5wt on the same stream I normally would use a 3wt.

 

[silver creek]

For the casting geeks, here is a 500 frame per second analysis of a series of fly casts performed by two expert casters. The maximum fly line velocity obtained was an average of 24 m/s or about 54 mph (see figure 2 and Table 1). That is the maximum line speed these experts could achieve.

A 10 mph headwind would increase drag by almost 30%, a 20 mph head wind would increase drag by 43%, and a 40 mph headwind by 67%

That is why casting into a headwind by is so difficult. With lesser line speed, and larger loop size, the aerodynamic drag increase is even greater.

http://www.flycastinginstitute.com/e-libraryfiles/FCI_E-L_Rod_Cast_102507.pdf

I showed that the maximum line velocity at the fly rod tip at the stop was 54 mph in the example (Figure 2 and Table 10 above.

IMMEDIATELY after the stop the fly line begins to slow down due to aerodynamic drag. In still air, the only drag is due to the forward line velocity. Since drag is proportional v^2, as forward line velocity decreases, there is an ever greater proportional drop in aerodynamic drag from the value at max velocity.

However, in a headwind, the line speed may drop BUT the wind velocity does not, so aerodynamic drag remains much higher. Eventually, if the wind velocity is high enough, the drag is greater than the remaining forward energy of the line and the line will actually be pushed back.

Meanwhile gravity is pulling the line down. The higher the cast is directed above the horizon, the longer it takes for the line to drop. Should the the line still be in the air when the wind velocity overcomes the forward line energy, the fly line will be pushed back toward the caster UNTIL gravity drops the line to the water or ground.

That is the reason we want to direct the cast at a downward angle - this leaves minimal vertical distance as the cast extends for the line to be blown back. There is a difference between directing the line downward from a vertical cast and doing a Reverse Belgian cast in which the entire forward cast is low and parallel to the water.

In the overhand cast directed downward, the rod stop is higher say at about 10 o'clock. As the loop unfurls after the stop, the lower limb of the loop is stationary and is fixed by the rod tip. This section of line has NO FORWARD VELOCITY and therefore, NO FORWARD ENERGY. This stationary downward angled section of line acts as a SAIL. It is a thin sail, but a sail none the less. It is a thin sail that is at an angle to the wind, and so it presents a proportion of its surface into the wind.

What happens is that the wind creates a backward drag on that line. The line does not actually move backward because the forward loop of the line is still moving and unrolling forward. BUT what this backward drag does is to consume some of the forward kinetic energy and slows down the forward velocity of the loop. Eventually the forward energy is consumed and the loop straightens OR the line does not extend and it is blown back.

Now when we make a low sidearm forward cast, the line from the rod tip to the unrolling loop is straight into the path of the wind. So the drag along the line surface is minimized; it is NOT angled into the wind. Furthermore, the entire line is going through a section of wind velocity that is lower so there is less overall drag. Finally, when the forward energy does die out, the entire line is at a lower level and there will be less blow back before the line hits the water.

Here is a graph of the wind gradient above water. It is from a study done for sailing ships, a higher sail grabs more wind.

I stated above that drag is proportional to velocity squared (v^2) so each little bit of decrease in wind velocity closer to the water surface means a longer cast.

Note also that the MAXIMUM line speed generated by ELITE casters is 54 mph. So any additional facing wind effect increases drag tremendously since the resultant drag is based the Square of the base forward line velocity.

That is why a 10 mph headwind, whihc would increase effective line speed from 54 mph to 64 mph (an 18% increase) would increase drag by almost 30%, a 20 mph head wind would increase drag by 43%, and a 40 mph headwind by 67%

 

[wolfglen]

Wind is a constant here. I feel like I've gotten pretty used to it. I'm decent at working a single haul and slowly improving a double. But the other day in high winds, I was having trouble getting smaller flies to turn over. My loops in the fly line looked great, and the leader was turning over decently about half way down, but the flies themselves were getting caught in the wind. Casting upstream into a headwind, the leader would basically fold in half about 2/3 way down and the flies would actually land downstream of nearly half the l eader.
I haven't had this problem before. But with winter, I was fishing smaller/lighter flies than usual.
Anything I can do to help this situation, or is it just part of fishing into a headwind? Gusts were around 45-50

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There is the POSSIBILITY that on the leader there might be a too quick step down of stiffness. Try the old Al McClane leader formulae. That might help. Also try making the back cast high, tucking the leader and the forward cast at a 45 degree angle, keeping it lower and out of the wind.

 

[nevadanstig]

There is the POSSIBILITY that on the leader there might be a too quick step down of stiffness. Try the old Al McClane leader formulae. That might help. Also try making the back cast high, tucking the leader and the forward cast at a 45 degree angle, keeping it lower and out of the wind.

Havent the slightest clue about leader formulas. I just use mono rio powerflex 9ft, 3x.

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[wjc]

The maximum fly line velocity obtained was an average of 24 m/s or about 54 mph (see figure 2 and Table 1). That is the maximum line speed these experts could achieve.

Silver, they were only casting 10 meters of line and weren't going for max tip speed. What they were doing was trying to figure out what percentage the total energy contained in a bent rod contributes to a cast when it straightens back out. They are talking somewhere around 17% on a 10 meter cast.

I don't really think it matters much from a practical standpoint. I think haul timing and release timing are far more important if one wants to optimise line speed.

(added for clarity). The above paragraph is about casting in general, not just about casting in the wind, which I got my 2 cents worth in about already.