New casting analyzer?

marky3130

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I always wanted to try the Sage Casting Analyzer but never got the chance. I hope this product becomes available!
 

wjc

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The Analyzer

Interesting. I understand the first two little charts on the sexyloops page above, and assume that "Pd=" must mean total elapsed time, but I have no idea what the bottom large chart means, much less how to interpret it.

I would need a video explanation of the two separate types of charts derived from the same casts to be able to understand what they mean.

I wonder how much that setup costs? It would certainly be fun to compare the charts to the old time way - by observing the results of the cast.
 

silver creek

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The Analyzer

Interesting. I understand the first two little charts on the sexyloops page above, and assume that "Pd=" must mean total elapsed time, but I have no idea what the bottom large chart means, much less how to interpret it.

I would need a video explanation of the two separate types of charts derived from the same casts to be able to understand what they mean.

I wonder how much that setup costs? It would certainly be fun to compare the charts to the old time way - by observing the results of the cast.



"Further analysis

The top chart shows tip speed, of a "normal" good med. dist. cast. Both fore and back cast speed is charted above the 0 line. The chart below shows both rod butt acceleration (solid line) and rod flex (dotted line). I've drawn vertical lines down from max tip speed so you can see what the rod butt is doing and what rod flex is at that point. The charts may not be lined up exactly so there will be some minor error, but you get the idea. I believe that the first and third tip speed peaks are back casts, the middle is a fore cast. Lots of variables, hard to develop many firm, fast rules.......

top: tip speed vs time
bottom: rod butt angular velocity (solid) & rod flex (dotted) vs time"


No video but this is how I interpret the graphs above.

So the top chart is fly rod tip velocity. The are three complexes. The writer assumes that the first complex is a backcast then a forward cast and then a backcast. Notice that the first and last complexes show a higher peak velocity. Since most casters develop a higher velocity on the forward cast, I think the graph is a forward cast, backcast, and forward cast.

The lower graph has a directional component to the Y (vertical) axis. So the graphs of rod butt angular velocity (solid) & rod flex (dotted) lines can cross each other.

Notice that the rod butt acceleration is graphed in the opposite direction as the rod flex. So the greater the rod but rotation (acceleration), the greater the rod flex, which is what one would expect.

When the rod butt stops accelerating (the solid line reaches the mid axis), the rod counter flexes, and the dotted line (rod flex) crosses the solid line (rod butt) because the rod flex is in the opposite direction. Then the rod straightens from the counter flex, and both rod butt and rod flex line touch and are at zero as the fly line loop is traveling and the fly line is straightening.

Then the opposite direction cast is begun and the sequence of rod butt acceleration and rod flex begins anew withe the rod counter flex at the stop. Etc, etc.
 

Ard

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Of course this post is part jest part serious; I've been using a casting analyzer for many years. Currently I have a ball cap on it, it works well for many other purposes but it will analyze casting well :)
 

willyf

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I think the slo-mo video feature on my iPhone is about as good of a casting analyzer as I can ask for. You can see so much going on with it, but how many of us use that little thing in our pocket to take video ourselves casting?
 

wjc

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sweetandsalt

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I have not made this happen but would love to see slow mo video data of my own casting. Pro baseball players regularly employ this for batting stroke analysis and it would have to be fascinating to see objective imagery of my own compounded casting flaws. And yes, Ard, I'd wear a hat while doing this.
 

willyf

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Here's a quick look at what slow-motion video from an iPhone can show you. This is at 720p, while the latest iPhones will record at 1080p at 120 frames per second or 720p at 240 frames per second. You can also record regular speed at 1080p.

In this video I'm performing a Snap-T cast. You can see everything that the rod does and everything that the line does. I'm sure a motion analyzer could offer some other interesting information, but I think video like this should be enough to help almost any caster get better and fix mistakes.
 

Jackster

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I have not made this happen but would love to see slow mo video data of my own casting. Pro baseball players regularly employ this for batting stroke analysis and it would have to be fascinating to see objective imagery of my own compounded casting flaws. And yes, Ard, I'd wear a hat while doing this.
Download Hudl technique and record yourself with an iPhone or better yet an iPad. It is very cool how it shows the line in motion even without going to memory eating HiDef. You can scroll back and forth with a thumbwheel and mark the images to better define what you see.
You can take a video of a true pro caster and have your image and the pro's image side-by-side while viewing at different speeds or link them using the thumbwheel feature to better show the variance between your cast and the cast of whoever you're benchmarking off of.
I usually tweak both video's so they start at the RSP. From there it's quite easy to see the variances in power application, the tip path and much more.
The program used to be called UberSense but since changed it's name.
 
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sweetandsalt

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You have more advanced video knowledge than I poses and we are a non-Apple household but I can try to have my wife use the rarely employed video feature on one of my larger sensor cameras and find a darker background that will allow the color of the fly line to show up well and give it a go come Spring.
 

wjc

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Sorry, Jackster. I must have gotten the threads confused and was replying to something else. It's hell getting older.
 
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wjc

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Sorry, Jackster. I must have gotten the threads confused and was replying to something else. It's hell getting older. I edited that erroneous post out.
 

bbbruce77

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I remember Bruce Richards talking about using the analyzer, that the best casters graphs for their back stroke and forward stroke would be close to equal. In other words the graph for the back cast and forward cast would be close to the same. The under powered back cast is the main culprit in most faulty casts.
 

marky3130

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I remember Bruce Richards talking about using the analyzer, that the best casters graphs for their back stroke and forward stroke would be close to equal. In other words the graph for the back cast and forward cast would be close to the same. The under powered back cast is the main culprit in most faulty casts.


I've heard as well that if you are going to have one stroke stronger than the other it should be the backcast.
 

adrienyvon

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That's an old thread but perfect right now, I'm a software developer on iOS and fly fisherman. I'm looking for ideas of fly fishing topics that could be help with an app.

We could definitely build an app using the motion sensors to record a casting session. The iPhone or Apple Watch would be on your casting arm.
The app could be an assistant when casting. Machine Learning techniques could also be very helpful. For example make a cast and once done tell the app how the cast was, it would then train this model and we'd be able to know what a good cast is supposed to be in terms of acceleration.
If anyone thinks it's a good idea I could take this further and create a prototype.
 

silver creek

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That's an old thread but perfect right now, I'm a software developer on iOS and fly fisherman. I'm looking for ideas of fly fishing topics that could be help with an app.

We could definitely build an app using the motion sensors to record a casting session. The iPhone or Apple Watch would be on your casting arm.
The app could be an assistant when casting. Machine Learning techniques could also be very helpful. For example make a cast and once done tell the app how the cast was, it would then train this model and we'd be able to know what a good cast is supposed to be in terms of acceleration.
If anyone thinks it's a good idea I could take this further and create a prototype.
The analyzer should not be on the casting arm because what matters is the rod and not the casters arm.

The Sage Casting Analyzer was mounted to the rod. So it could sense the what the rod was doing and not the arm. Much of the casting motion is the wrist and the hand which would not be monitored with a device mounted to the arm.

The rod does not care what the shoulder, elbow, wrist, hand, and even the body are doing. All that matters is how and when the fly rod moves. By monitoring the motion of the fly rod, the Sage Casting Analyzer bypassed the body movements.

Rule # 1 is to keep the main thing, the main thing. The main thing in fly casting is the rod - how and when it moves and how and when it stops.

Fly Casting Analyzer - Wikipedia

New Sage Casting Analyzer

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