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Thread: Line weight/rod weight question

  1. #11

    Default Re: Line weight/rod weight question

    Quote Originally Posted by flyflingerandy View Post
    The reason the 6wt worked better than the 5wt, would have to be because all fly rods (except Orvis and Winston WT 2-5wt) are rated for DT lines, not WF. To get the same flex and feel, if it is a 5wt rod, that is a DT5F or WF6F, hence why some rods are labeled 5/6, 4/5, etc. Also, the casting feel is a completely subjective thing. Entirely up to the caster.

    A double taper 5wt and a weight forward 5wt ---weigh the same in the first 30ft---the rod wont know which one you have on---the dual weights on the rod is a range to compensate for ther casters style, efficiency, purpose and manufacturing tolerances. An experienced caster should be able to cast each line equally well.

    now-a-days its difficult for me to find a double tapered line in a store---i looked for a dt6f last week and called 3 stores and the manufactures rep and settled for a 5 and underlined the rod
    "something is happening here but i dont know what it is"---dylan

  2. Default Re: Line weight/rod weight question

    Quote Originally Posted by flyflingerandy View Post
    The reason the 6wt worked better than the 5wt, would have to be because all fly rods (except Orvis and Winston WT 2-5wt) are rated for DT lines, not WF. To get the same flex and feel, if it is a 5wt rod, that is a DT5F or WF6F, hence why some rods are labeled 5/6, 4/5, etc. Also, the casting feel is a completely subjective thing. Entirely up to the caster.
    I dont suppose you can find a cite for this? Because i am fairly certain that
    rods used to be labeled 5/6, 5 wf 6 double tapper. The front of the weight forward weighs less, so the wf weighs. Now since almost everyone uses a a WF rod makers have taken off the second double taper designation.

    Their are many reasons why the 6 weight line could work better than the 5 wt. First of all, The faster the rod, the heavier the line the more it will slow the rod down. So if you like a 5 weight that has a action of X, and you get a rod that is a whole weight in action faster, putting a whole weight line faster on it will make it cast better for you. Like if you like a slow action rod and someone gives you a 5 weight xp, putting on a 6 weight line will make it cast better for you.

    Lets say you have a standard action rod, you may like the heavier line better because it has a more pronounced load in the road, and helps you know when to stop on your backcast.

  3. Default Re: Line weight/rod weight question

    I don't know if you were trying to agree with me or not. But I do have a fast action 5 wt and it works great. As for other action rods I couldn't tell you what would happen because this is my first rod and new to this sport. I don't know if other people on this forum are trying to diss this idea, but all I was trying to do is give out some information that was passed down to me that has helped me out tremendously.

  4. #14

    Default Re: Line weight/rod weight question

    A 5 wt rod generally takes a 5 wt line---in the first 30 ft the 2 lines will weigh the same---and this puts a certain stress on the rod while casting----the more efficient your casting is, the more load you put into the rod.
    the less efficient you are the less load is put into the rod and the 6 wt will feel better to you--we cant evaluate your casting on the forum very easily
    "something is happening here but i dont know what it is"---dylan

  5. Default Re: Line weight/rod weight question

    Quote Originally Posted by flyflingerandy View Post
    The reason the 6wt worked better than the 5wt, would have to be because all fly rods (except Orvis and Winston WT 2-5wt) are rated for DT lines, not WF.
    This is an old myth. It may have been true in the past, but is not now. When you consider the casting distance for most trout fishing 20-45 feet, you will see why. The AFTMA weight rating for a flyline is based on the first 30 feet of a flyline excluding the tip, which is typically about a foot in length. If you are using a 8 foot rod with 30 feet of line out of the rod's tiptop and a 7-1/2 foot leader this adds up to a 46-1/2 foot cast if the line straightened completely. Assuming 1-1/2 feet of slack, you get around a 45 foot cast (= 8ft +1 ft +30ft +7.5ft). A DT line and a WF line with 30 foot belly sections, the same tapers, and the same belly thickness/density will have identical performance out to about 45 feet. I have had this discussion before on other. Bruce Richards of Scientific Anglers posted in the thread confirming this. He also wrote a short article about it.

    Most trout rods are designed to optimally cast about 30 feet give or take 5-10 feet) of line. As you get up toward the saltwater line weights, the casts are typically longer and the rods are designed to carry longer lengths of line to accommodate these longer distances, but this doesn't generally apply to trout weight rods (especially 4wt and under). Thus if you are usually casting shorter distances than these rods are designed for, you may want to go up a line weight. If you typically cast longer distances than the rods are designed for, you may want to up a line weight. If you typically use one or two line weights heavier for every casting situation at nominal distances (20-40 feet), you probably prefer a slower action rod than you are using.

  6. Default Re: Line weight/rod weight question

    I'm thinking about getting my son-in-law a rod and reel, etc., for his birthday in mid-March. I know nothing about fishing, but I read the interviews with you and Tom Morgan, so I know it's pretty specialized.

    My son-in-law lives between Dallas and Ft. Worth, Texas. He and my daughter and my grandchildren go to lakes, small rivers and streams to hike and picnic, etc. He tells me he has done some fishing. I was going to get a lifetime membership in Trout Unlimited and give him one of the Sage rods with reel that come with the membership, until I read the Tom Morgan (Winston) interviews.

    What weight rod, length of hand-knotted leader, type and size of fly, type of reel, and so forth would you recommend in his situation? I don't want to get something he can't use or that won't work where he fishes.

    Also, can you give me an idea of the prices on this equipment?

    Thanks for any help you can give me.

    kayla

    Sent from my iPad
    Last edited by kayla; 02-21-2014 at 04:59 PM. Reason: I omitted my email address: kaylaesq@email.com

  7. #17
    turbineblade Guest

    Default Re: Line weight/rod weight question

    Quote Originally Posted by kayla View Post
    I'm thinking about getting my son-in-law a rod and reel, etc., for his birthday in mid-March. I know nothing about fishing, but I read the interviews with you and Tom Morgan, so I know it's pretty specialized.

    My son-in-law lives between Dallas and Ft. Worth, Texas. He and my daughter and my grandchildren go to lakes, small rivers and streams to hike and picnic, etc. He tells me he has done some fishing. I was going to get a lifetime membership in Trout Unlimited and give him one of the Sage rods with reel that come with the membership, until I read the Tom Morgan (Winston) interviews.

    What weight rod, length of hand-knotted leader, type and size of fly, type of reel, and so forth would you recommend in his situation? I don't want to get something he can't use or that won't work where he fishes.

    Also, can you give me an idea of the prices on this equipment?

    Thanks for any help you can give me.

    kayla

    Sent from my iPad
    Since you mention trout unlimited I'd assume he would target trout? It's hard to go wrong with nearly any good fly rod and reel combo -- something in the 9 foot length, 4-weight, 5-weight or 6-weight size is pretty easy to find a use for, for ANY fly fisherman . Generally with fly rods you get what you pay for, but there are some really good rods in the $150-300 range. I like TFOs quite a bit for the money, but that's just me and many others are good too.

  8. #18

    Default Re: Line weight/rod weight question

    I didn't read all the replies, and this was probly mentioned already, but each rod had its own character. It may cast a line wt up or down or be perfect matched. But not all rods are equal. In my experience, going up a wt is more common than goin down a wt.



    Sent from my iPhone

  9. #19
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Line weight/rod weight question

    IMO.....the manufacturers have gotten into the "FAST" rod race. I really believe that they are under rating rods intentionally to have the fastest rod. This is speaking in generalities of course. I have 2 5wt rods that I actually do use a 5 wt line with. I have a 2wt that feels good with up to and including a 5wt line. It will cast a 2wt line but it like heavier. I have 7wt that likes a 8wt line and I have a 9wt that works well with a 9wt. I have an 8wt that likes a 9wt line. I have an old glass Fenwick 5wt that likes a 4wt line. An old glass Heddon 7wt that likes a 7wt and a new cheap EC 5/6 wt that likes both a 5 and 6wt line. Whether a rod is fast or slow it will cast better with a certain wt line of a given design. Not all WF lines are created equal. Not all 5wt lines are 5wt lines. The whole weight system is out of control and is very confusing to new comers as well as old timers. It is too bad we have to buy multiple $70 lines to find one that works well on a new rod. I am sure it discourages new fishermen from pursuing this fine sport.

  10. #20

    Default Re: Line weight/rod weight question

    Quote Originally Posted by tlcrep View Post
    I dont suppose you can find a cite for this? Because i am fairly certain that
    rods used to be labeled 5/6, 5 wf 6 double tapper. The front of the weight forward weighs less, so the wf weighs. Now since almost everyone uses a a WF rod makers have taken off the second double taper designation.

    You have it backwards.

    Standard brands of WF and DT fly lines have the identical front taper and body for the first 30 feet for the same line wt. For example a WF and DT Orvis Wonder line 4 wt lines will be identical in line mass and profile for the first 30 feet.

    See:

    "DT and WF lines are generally the same in the front taper and belly"

    Why Fish Double-Taper Fly Lines? | MidCurrent

    AFTER the first 30 feet, the WF has less mass for equal lengths of line because it has running line and the DT has the thicker and heavier line belly.

    See line chart and profile below:





    Now consider the fly line profiles of the Cortland WF and DT 333 fly lines below.





    When casting beyond 30 feet of fly line, you can see that the DT version of the fly line will gradually have greater mass for the distance of the cast BECAUSE the WF will be into the lighter running line. THEREFORE, when the cast is over 30 feet, the rod has to cast more mass with the DT version of the fly line than with the WF version. THEREFORE, the dual rating of a 5/6 fly rod is size 5 DT and size 6 WF fly line. Eventually for the identical longer cast, the mass of the DT 5 line will = the mass of the WF 6 fly line.

    The reason that manufactures have removed the dual line designation is that it causes confusion (as it has in this case) AND because modern graphite fly rods can cast 3 line wts.
    Last edited by silver creek; 04-23-2014 at 07:36 PM.
    Regards,

    Silver



    "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

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