Newbie question - basic cast

[freakaccident]

So I have been fly fishing for a little over a week. I am using a 5wt setup. I am fishing for large mouth bass on ponds using the basic forward cast. I have taken one class at the Orvis store. I can cast 30 feet or so consistently and well but I need another 10 feet to get to the big bass.

My issue is distance. I can get out to a certain distance, about 30 feet, and the rhythm is fine but if I add more line into the mix I loose the rhythm and can't control it and it goes everywhere.

I don't know what I am doing wrong. It just feels like there isn't enough weight in the mix to keep adding more line and then it all comes falling down. I shorten it up and everything is the way it should be.

The only person I know is the Orvis instructor and he just keeps telling me I need to take more lessons and that he can cast 90 feet with a 4wt no problem. Well lessons cost money.

I am about to get a new setup since mine consists of an old bamboo rod and a janky reel with no drag. I need a reel with a drag because 6 pound bass on a 8.5lb tippet are hard to not lose using my hand as a drag. I also need a decent rod so I am not beating up my grandfathers old bamboo rod everyday. I am thinking of going up a weight to a 6wt. Will that increase my casting distance?

Any advice or help would be appreciated.

 

[fredaevans]

Just my guess here but it sounds like the rod and line are a 'miss-match.' Line's too light for the rod so it isn't 'loading' same. Up line by at least one, I'd consider a WF two line sizes up.

 

[freakaccident]

Just my guess here but it sounds like the rod and line are a 'miss-match.' Line's too light for the rod so it isn't 'loading' same. Up line by at least one, I'd consider a WF two line sizes up.

I am using 5wt line. Here is what my rod says:

---------- Post added at 07:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:26 PM ----------

I Googled HDH. Apparently my rod wants a double taper 6wt fly line and not the forward 5wt I have.

I am ordering a new combo on Friday. I guess I can deal with the short casts until then.

 

[fredaevans]

This web site is a bit 'over-kill,' but serious fun. :thumbsup:EVERYTHING you want to know about 'older' fly lines is covered here: fly line weights by letters - Bing images

fae

Spey Line 'standards' and I don't believe a word of it: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...1FE921822D829FF05E26B4108C055CE00&FORM=IQFRBA

 

[rangerrich99]

What flies are you trying to cast?

 

[freakaccident]

What flies are you trying to cast?

I have been throwing top water poppers mostly in the #6 size. The bass weren't biting tonight so I switched to a cricket and the big bluegill tore it up!

---------- Post added at 07:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 PM ----------

Here is a small bass I caught last night on a #6 popper. You can see the popper in his mouth.

---------- Post added at 08:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:47 PM ----------

So maybe with the line and rod mismatch if I buy a new 5 wt rod and reel is casting 50 feet consistently reasonable? I have a lot of floating vegetation to get over before I even hit water with fish in it.

Thanks,
Aaron

 

[ia_trouter]

Those appear to be fairly wind resistant flies for a 5WT. Not that it can't be done, but casting those long is a tall task for week one of your flyfishing adventure. Especially if you are throwing a typical 5WT trout line.

 

[bloomagoo]

I highly recommend at least a 6 weight rod, possibly even a 7 weight. Sounds like you have a lot of weeds to deal with and you need some backbone to haul those pigs out of the salad and cast larger bass bugs. A modern setup will vastly improve your casting compared to the bamboo you've been using.

 

[freakaccident]

I highly recommend at least a 6 weight rod, possibly even a 7 weight. Sounds like you have a lot of weeds to deal with and you need some backbone to haul those pigs out of the salad and cast larger bass bugs. A modern setup will vastly improve your casting compared to the bamboo you've been using.

You seem to be the first person that knows what I am talking about. Your analogy is spot on. Hauling pigs out of the salad! So I should not spend the money on a nice 5wt setup? I should just go to 7wt or 8wt?

Oh and I am hauling them through salad the last 10 feet,

I need a net too. With spinning gear I could haul them on shore. Not with a fly rod.

---------- Post added at 08:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 PM ----------

Those appear to be fairly wind resistant flies for a 5WT. Not that it can't be done, but casting those long is a tall task for week one of your flyfishing adventure. Especially if you are throwing a typical 5WT trout line.

What exactly does that mean? I am casting those so apparently it can be done.

Edit: I thought about it for a minute. I see what you mean. Hard to cast a large fly on light line any distance. It has been a lot of hard work and learning. I have spent many hours over the past week casting. When it goes right it is beautiful. I think I should put on a light fly and see what my cast looks like.

 

[horsehead]

If you're dealing with LMB, weeds, and wind resistant flies, save yourself a lot of heart ache and just get an 8wt. You will not regret it!

 

[freakaccident]

If you're dealing with LMB, weeds, and wind resistant flies, save yourself a lot of heart ache and just get an 8wt. You will not regret it!

Thanks! I am going 8 weight!

What size backing do I need for an 8? 20 or 30lb?

This is what I am fishing until I get a good rod from Amazon. It's a junky Pflueger rod from a combo package I used to get started. Pray for me!

 

[Hirdy]

Looking back at your first couple of posts in this thread, I get the impression your loops are not tight enough and/or you are not waiting for the loops to completely unroll before beginning the next forward or back cast.

You say it's good out to 30' but it all falls apart as you try to go further. To me, that means your timing is falling apart because you're putting in more force but it's at the wrong point in the cast and the line isn't ready to be cast yet. It can also indicate that you aren't getting the energy into the cast efficiently in the first place (i.e. wide open loops that never straighten.)

Be prepared for your new outfit to also feel like there isn't enough weight to cast any further. That's a casting fault, not an equipment fault.

If you find that's the case, please post a video of your casting (if you do not want to pay for lessons) and somebody here will be able to analyse where the problems are. It's more efficient to pay for a lesson or two, but you can learn by yourself if you like to nut things out for yourself.

What you can't do is buy better gear and expect that to solve the problems you have. It doesn't work that way ...

Cheers,
Graeme

 

[JoJer]

If you spend a lot of time on this water, you might want to consider a bass bug taper for your 8 wt.
I wish someone had recommended learning to haul when I first started. It's much harder (for me) to unlearn what I've been doing for years and learn a new technique. At least, with hauling, when you get it right, you know it right away.

 

[karstopo]

I have a 5/6 weight that I can cast bucktail steamers and even size 4 weighted clousers well, but really bulky foam and non aerodynamic patterns like dead head minnows not so much. When I have the big flies on the 5/6, I almost feel like I forgot how to cast. If I put something a little smaller and sleeker on, my ability to cast seems a okay again.

I can cast those wind grabbing patterns better with the 7 and 8 weights. My solution, may not be the right one for everyone, is if I really have to use the big clunky fly for whatever reason, I move up to a rod weight rating or 2 that can handle it better.

In other words, if I can cast smaller sleeker flies with the accuracy and distance I desire but struggle when I change the pattern to a bulky fly, I'm changing the rod or the fly, not the cast.

 

[Hirdy]

I hear what you're saying karstopo but the OP says the casts are okay to 30'. At 30', most of the line outside the tip is taper (& leader), so it should actually be harder to cast those flies 30' and easier to cast them when more line mass is moving the fly.

Certainly, big flies require heavier line weight gear, but if the gear can cast a given fly 30', it can cast it 70' too.

Here, it's not the rod but the caster that's struggling.

Cheers,
Graeme

 

[fishing hobo]

If one goes back to when one started casting flies I think you will know exactly what the OP is saying. It is just lacking the correct basic technique as Hirdy (Graeme) says. I remember well what I was like, still not great at it but miles better. It is all about the "5 essentials" and utilising proper stops. OP look up Bill Gamell's 5 essentials of casting on YouTube, it will prove very useful. I found firm stops one of the key elements in making a good cast (which is not mentioned in the 5 essentials).

 

[freakaccident]

I hear what you're saying karstopo but the OP says the casts are okay to 30'. At 30', most of the line outside the tip is taper (& leader), so it should actually be harder to cast those flies 30' and easier to cast them when more line mass is moving the fly.

Certainly, big flies require heavier line weight gear, but if the gear can cast a given fly 30', it can cast it 70' too.

Here, it's not the rod but the caster that's struggling.

Cheers,
Graeme

Not sure if you saw the part about me discovering that I was using a mismatched rod and line combo. Fw5wt line with a bamboo rod that recommends HDH or Double tapered 6wt line. How much of that is my issue I don't know but it was found out after someone mentioned that it sounded like I was using mismatched line and rod.

OH and I was not having this issue during a casting class at Orvis using their 6wt Clearwater combo setup with a small piece of yarn as a fly.

Thanks

 

[fishing hobo]

Not sure if you saw the part about me discovering that I was using a mismatched rod and line combo. Fw5wt line with a bamboo rod that recommends HDH or Double tapered 6wt line. How much of that is my issue I don't know but it was found out after someone mentioned that it sounded like I was using mismatched line and rod.

OH and I was not having this issue during a casting class at Orvis using their 6wt Clearwater combo setup with a small piece of yarn as a fly.

Thanks

I have stuck a #5wt line on a fast #6 rod, it casts w/o too much problem. Never cast a bamboo rod but assuming it is slow vs graphite, I see no reason why it could not cast a #5WF (same as #5DT for 1st 30ft of line).

 

[Rip Tide]

A 1950's 9' South Bend 346 ..?... A very difficult rod to learn on, IMO
The line shouldn’t make that much of a difference as those rods should be able to accommodate a number of lines.
My suggestion would be to pack grampa's rod away until you have more experience and try something easier.
... and by easier I don't mean expensive

https://www.amazon.com/Scientific-Anglers-Fishing-Starter-Weight/dp/B003CU6U5E

 

[freakaccident]

A 1950's 9' South Bend 346 ..?... A very difficult rod to learn on, IMO
The line shouldn’t make that much of a difference as those rods should be able to accommodate a number of lines.
My suggestion would be to pack grampa's rod away until you have more experience and try something easier.
... and by easier I don't mean expensive

https://www.amazon.com/Scientific-Anglers-Fishing-Starter-Weight/dp/B003CU6U5E

I was actually look at this rod. Any comments on this one?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0197J9Q8Q/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=IBC6058VD7SA3&colid=2E795V4BHI20F