Analyze my cast....

[freakaccident]

So here is a video. Ignore the 30m comment. This is 10m. I started fly fishing about 2 weeks ago.

In the video I am using a janky 5wt Pflueger rod and reel.

Pflueger® Fly Kit | Pflueger®

It is all I have at the moment that matches. The video is just me doing the basic cast a few times. Any help would be appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlV3s0S6Ayc

Thanks,
Aaron

 

[rangerrich99]

I'm not an instructor, but this is what jumps out at me watching your video:

So, first, you have a decent pause in your casting stroke going from back to front, which is good.

You're casting stroke is on a bit of an angle. Try to get the rod to be a little more vertical from butt to tip during your casting stroke.

Your wrist is breaking on the back stroke to the point that your rod is pointed almost horizontally behind you. Can't load the rod like that. You want to stop your hand about where you are stopping it now, but keep the rod tip pointed up. I'd suggest visualizing that you're holding a screwdriver.

You need to stop the rod on the front stroke before it gets to horizontal to produce line speed, otherwise most of your stored energy is going down towards the ground and not out in front of you towards your target. I'd suggest pretending to flick paint on a wall about ten feet in front of you with a paintbrush.

Overall though you seem to be off to a decent start. Certainly it looks better than what I was doing in the beginning.

As a suggestion, try analyzing this video from Orvis and compare what you're cast looks like vs. the instructor. Try not to watch the rod and the line; instead focus on his body posture/position and his arm, hand and wrist movements.

Peace.

P.S. and don't worry, a bunch of people are going to have a lot of advice for you soon. I'm just getting my two cents in while I can.

 

[dillon]

As said above stopping the rod sooner on the forward stroke is critical. Think 10 o'clock 2 o'clock. Forward cast should be the same as the back cast. Standing so you can watch the line on your back cast can be helpful. Good luck and keep practicing. A lesson from a casting instructor can help to shorten the learning curve to insure you are forming and practicing good casting habits.

 

[Hirdy]

G'day Aaron,

Thanks for posting up the video of your casting. It makes it much easier to see what's going on compared with the description we'd get if you were to write your questions down.

I'm seeing a casting arc (the "slice of pizza" that your rod describes) that is much too wide. You've got half a pizza going there, we're as you should have about maybe a quarter of a pizza for a 10m cast.

The very first thing to do is to see just how small you can make that casting arc.

I made a video a few months ago for another person, so it's not addressing your problems specifically. However it does show the negative effects of a wide casting arc and the lack of a positive stop (both of which are problems I see in your cast.) Here's that video.

My immediate recommendations are to apply less force and tighten up the casting arc. Work more on stopping the rod earlier - that stop will fling the line forward for you. If you find your rod pointing at the target immediately following the cast, you've gone way too far with it.

(There are other problems too, but we can deal with them later. Little steps.)

Cheers,
Graeme

 

[freakaccident]

So tighten up the arc. Got it. Give me a few.

 

[texastroutbum]

I am amazed that in two weeks you can cast that well. I agree with advices other members gave you. I want to add that you may want to change the stance. Your stance seems to be what I think open stance. And the following video shows how to improve common beginner's casting issues.

https://youtu.be/r6TDkN8RPHo

You are off to a good start. Practice 30 mins per day and don't overdo it because casting injuries can happen.

tight lines

 

[Hirdy]

The stance itself is not really a problem, and in fact, that wide stance is very good for allowing Aaron to watch his back cast (which is quite important during this early learning phase). Dillon mentioned it above and it's a good suggestion because it offers immediate feedback to the caster about what might be going wrong in the back cast.

Changing the stance can help with certain problems, like the caster will not stop opening the rear loop, even when told he/she is doing so. But changing to a closed stance prevents the caster watching the loop form, so it's not the first thing I try with a student.

(BTW, I still like to watch my back cast form. It allows me to really tune my cast to the rod and conditions.)

Cheers,
Graeme

 

[rangerrich99]

Sorry, I forgot to post the link to the Orvis video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDJJ6W23gHw&t=210s

 

[freakaccident]

I am amazed that in two weeks you can cast that well. I agree with advices other members gave you. I want to add that you may want to change the stance. Your stance seems to be what I think open stance. And the following video shows how to improve common beginner's casting issues.

https://youtu.be/r6TDkN8RPHo

You are off to a good start. Practice 30 mins per day and don't overdo it because casting injuries can happen.

tight lines

Wow thanks! I thought I was well behind the curve and having issues. I was about to give up. I've been frustrated but kept going.

I should have another video with a tighter arc in a few minutes. Running it through Premier.

 

[westcoast]

I didn't know you could get a rod and reel for $40. You should easily cast 150 feet with a $400 combo then

 

[freakaccident]

I didn't know you could get a rod and reel for $40. You should easily cast 150 feet with a $400 combo then

Lol. I hate this piece of **** $40 kit but it will work until I get better stuff. I have to take the reel apart every so often because it eats the line.

---------- Post added at 06:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:30 PM ----------

Here I am stopping sooner. Sorry if it is hard to see the line. The sun was going down. Oh and I am throwing a popper with the hook cut off.

Thanks,
Aaron

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jngPs19qPsc&feature=youtu.be

 

[kentuckysteve]

You are doing fine.That is better than the first video.I agree with everyone about the arc.You sort of have the windshield wiper thing happening.I read somewhere to treat your rod tip as if it were a paint brush painting a ceiling in your house.You want to keep the brush against the ceiling.Move your elbow as if it is setting on a shelf.As you go back and forward move the elbow back and forward in a straight line.
And as stated above come to a quick stop on the back cast and forward cast.You are stopping sooner but still not coming to a quick stop.If the rod were a paint brush you are wanting to fling the paint on the wall in one spot directly in front of you.Not down toward the floor.Where the rod tip goes the line will go.If you take it too far forward and down your line will fall apart at your feet because that is where you stopped the tip of the rod.Too far back and same thing.Line will go down causing a wide loop.Your line will go in whatever direction your tip stops..You want the same power in the forward cast as you applied in the back cast.Don't get frustrated.You are doing good.Most of us went through the same learning curve.

 

[silver creek]

Its 1 AM and I just returned from fishing in Montana and we drove straight through for 22 hours. Maybe I am tired but I cannot see the fly line on either of the videos.

So just going on your arm motions, one serious fault I see is that you DO NOT follow the fly line down after the stop of the rod on the forward lay down cast. You keep the rod angled at about 10 o'clock.

Even on your very first backcast at the very beginning of the video, you start the back cast with the rod horizontal at 9 o'clock.

The back cast should start with the rod tip down at the water/ground level and the fly line straight to the rod tip.

If you you start with the rod horizontal (9 o'clock) or at even higher at 10 o'clock, you have "wasted" the additional energy and velocity you could have given the fly line by starting with the rod tip at ground level and the fly line straight to the rod tip rather than hanging from the rod tip. This low rod tip position and a straight fly line results in a functionally longer and therefore a more effective rod stroke for the same stop point on the back cast.

You will be able to "load" the rod more effectively resulting in a more energetic backcast which will then give you more fly line energy and momentum AGAINST which you can more effectively load the rod for the forward lay down cast.

After the forward stop on the forward lay down cast, follow the fly line down with the rod tip so the rod tip ends back down at the water/ground. This more effective forward lay down cast will result in a straighter fly line on the water/ground which is tight to the rod tip for the next cast.

Admittedly, this is not the best best dry fly fishing cast since there will be minimal slack line for a drag free drift; but it is the best way to learn the an effective casting stroke and slack line cast will come after.

Lefty Kreh's first rule of fly casting is that the fly cast CANNOT start until the end of the line starts moving. If you have slack in the fly line/leader OR start with a high rod position, your back cast; and therefore, you forward cast, will be less effective.

Lefty Kreh’s fourth rule fly casting is that is that the longer you move the rod through and arc, the less effort is required. By starting with an elevated rod tip, you limit the casting arc; and therefore, you make it harder on yourself by artificially limiting your casting arc.

How To Fly Cast- Fly Fisherman

4 Principles of Fly Casting - a summary of Lefty Krey's work

 

[drynotnymph]

One thing about your casting angle; it isn't bad you are casting at an angle. Sure, to a lot of people like having the rod go straight up and down is nice, but there are a lot of people, including myself, who cast the rod at an angle. An important tip is to always remember your rod tip should be painting the sky. Keep your elbow tucked close to your body and keep your wrist locked though it will give a little. When you cast your arm should create a z from your wrist down to your elbow. The nice thing about casting is everyone has their own style and that's what is enjoyable about fly fishing. However, there are basics which have already been pointed out in this thread you need to follow. Hesitation is important, another thing is don't force your cast. It's like a golf swing or carving on a snowboard or ski. You load the rod which in turn creates line speed which will help give you distance in casting. This is not done by forcing the cast by increasing more force to your cast. A steady consistent casting stroke will go a long way. Overall, not bad at all. You will get more comfortable with casting as you progress each day.

 

[Hirdy]

G'day Aaron,

There were a few good casts in the second video. The third cast in particular is getting much closer to your eventual goal. If you look at that one, you'll see there was a very positive stop at the end of the forward stroke, and although I could not see the line very well, I bet that one stood out for you when you did it.

Generally though, the casting arc is still too wide and the stops are not positive enough. The back cast stop is especially soft, probably because you aren't watching it and therefore concentrating only on the front cast.

In every cast you're performing in both videos, you're performing what's known as a "pick up and lay down" cast (AKA PULD). That's a pretty standard cast and is often the first one taught to students, which means you're starting in the right place. That's good.

However, the PULD cast has six distinct steps. I see three or four steps in most of your casts, meaning you're skipping a few.

1. Start with your line completely straight and the rod tip on the water/ground
2. A slow lift of the rod to about 10 o'clock
3. A quick acceleration to a stop (which should be at about 12:30 for a 30' cast). The hint here is to try to aim this part of the cast vertically: you won't get there if you stopped step 2 in the right place, but the attempt normally produces the right cast.
4. A brief pause while the line straightens behind you
5. Acceleration to a positive stop in front of you, aimed at about 10:00 o'clock again
6. And finally, a slow lowering of the rod tip as the tip follows the line down to the water/ground at the same rate the line falls from the cast to the water/ground

Try performing each step progressively, breaking it down into those six steps. By that, I mean, go from 1 to 2, return to 1. Then go from 1 to 2 to 3 and return to 1. Then go from 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 and return to 1. (And so on.) The last three casts in my video linked here show those steps, although they are not numbered. (Forget the haul with the left hand in that video - it's not important for short casts. I only do it out of habit and see no reason to stop.)

Cheers,
Graeme

 

[fishing hobo]

You are doing fine.That is better than the first video.I agree with everyone about the arc.You sort of have the windshield wiper thing happening.I read somewhere to treat your rod tip as if it were a paint brush painting a ceiling in your house.You want to keep the brush against the ceiling.Move your elbow as if it is setting on a shelf.As you go back and forward move the elbow back and forward in a straight line.
And as stated above come to a quick stop on the back cast and forward cast.You are stopping sooner but still not coming to a quick stop.If the rod were a paint brush you are wanting to fling the paint on the wall in one spot directly in front of you.Not down toward the floor.Where the rod tip goes the line will go.If you take it too far forward and down your line will fall apart at your feet because that is where you stopped the tip of the rod.Too far back and same thing.Line will go down causing a wide loop.Your line will go in whatever direction your tip stops..You want the same power in the forward cast as you applied in the back cast.Don't get frustrated.You are doing good.Most of us went through the same learning curve.

That seemed to be the most obvious in both videos. The paintbrush analogy is a good one, go and get one from your garage and try it. There are couple of YouTube videos on this paint brush. It should help you understand the concept of how a fly should be cast. What you are trying to do is accelerate the line with the rod (which means pulling the floppy line instead of pushing) and then stop. The sudden stop of the accelerated line form the loop. As Graeme (Hirdy) said, watch your loops if you can as you need to pause to allow the line to unroll before you start your fwd cast. Tight loops are formed by moving the rod tip in a straight path and windshield wiper motion produces a very wide loop, the line then has no momentum so it flops as you described previously. Bill Gammell's 5 essential videos are very useful. Watch it if you haven't.

---------- Post added at 10:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 AM ----------

This is the motion you want to utilise:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfKpOJQDu9I

 

[freakaccident]

Thanks! I will work on this tonight and report back.

 

[freakaccident]

Alright alright alright! I think I have gotten a lot closer! I read what everyone said, put it together, and practiced for about 30 minutes. I am uploading the video now. So excited to hear the results!

Thanks,
Aaron

---------- Post added at 03:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 PM ----------

So after watching it as it is uploading it looks like you can't really see my forward stop. I can feel it when I am casting but I am not pausing for very long. I am getting it out there 13 meters or so no problem now every single cast on a junk rod. Let me know what you think. I will post the link in a minute.

---------- Post added at 03:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:40 PM ----------

Gonna be a few extra minutes. I forgot to encode it in .264 before uploading.

---------- Post added at 04:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------

Here is the video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIAB6sO0CWE

 

[Hirdy]

I'm on my way out the door, so I don't have a lot of time to comment right now.

Compare those casts with the third one in the last video. In this video, I see no stop at all. Your rod is pointed directly at the ground/target. You're carrying this trait over from your spin fishing. Remember, these PULD casts have SIX steps, not the two we see here.

For these short casts, stop the rod while it's still pointing at about 10:00. Only then can you follow the line down.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to make a video today that shows those six steps as distinct motions. If so, I'll post it up for you.

Cheers,
Graeme

PS: You're going really well. I'm impressed by your dedication. It will be much better for your progression if you stop looking to increase distance for a while and concentrate on watching nice tight loops roll off the tip of your rod on both the back cast and the front cast. Work on getting them as tight as you can. Distance will naturally follow once your loops are tight.

 

[freakaccident]

I'm on my way out the door, so I don't have a lot of time to comment right now.

Compare those casts with the third one in the last video. In this video, I see no stop at all. Your rod is pointed directly at the ground/target. You're carrying this trait over from your spin fishing. Remember, these PULD casts have SIX steps, not the two we see here.

For these short casts, stop the rod while it's still pointing at about 10:00. Only then can you follow the line down.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to make a video today that shows those six steps as distinct motions. If so, I'll post it up for you.

Cheers,
Graeme

PS: You're going really well. I'm impressed by your dedication. It will be much better for your progression if you stop looking to increase distance for a while and concentrate on watching nice tight loops roll off the tip of your rod on both the back cast and the front cast. Work on getting them as tight as you can. Distance will naturally follow once your loops are tight.

I must be doing something wrong. If I stop on my forward at 10 the line falls to the ground in a bundle and the fly lands on top of it.

---------- Post added at 05:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:48 PM ----------

Unfortunately I don't have a cameraman and my family members are being brats about filming me otherwise I could almost do this live. I have a tripod coming which means I can do it myself but also means I need to clip videos to upload them.