Casting a 10wt rod

[wisconsin jim]

I've fly fished for 10 years or so and have no problem casting my trout rods. I've wanted to try fishing for trophy Northern Pike and Muskie so I got an Echo EPR 9' 10wt rod. I managed to catch a 30" muskie on my first time out in Canada. Early first time out, that is. First half-dozen casts. I've fished with it several times since and it is really obvious that I'm not doing something right. I wore out my arm in the span of several hours one morning. Clobbered my buddy with a pike streamer as well! Help! I just want to be able to cast the thing consistently. My 8wt is a dream to cast but the 10wt seems like I've never fly fished before. Either I learn to cast this thing or give up my dream of a 40"+ northern/muskie and sell out of the big stuff.

 

[Rip Tide]

I avoid throwing a 10wt whenever possible
It's not the weigh of the rod that's the problem, it's the mass of the line that yanks on your shoulder with every false cast.
The solution for me is an 8wt or 9wt with sparser, more aerodynamic flies, as opposed big floor mops.

 

[smarty140]

I bought a 10 last summer for fishing muskies on local rivers... agree that it is tiring to cast.

Part of what seems to help is minimizing false casting - just either pick up the line and shoot it out, or 1 false cast. On rivers where we’re generally fishing to shoreline structure from a boat, that works fine. I haven’t tried much on lakes, so I can’t comment on that.

ryan

 

[camelbrass]

10wt and up is a different kettle of fish. Slow down particularly on the back cast and learn to double haul properly. False casting without shooting line is a waste of effort.

Regards,


Trevor

 

[sjkirkpa]

I really like Echo rods. I have several of them in different styles and weights. But the EPR is ridiculously stiff and powerful. I think it is the rare angler that can consistently cast a 10wt EPR without tiring out quickly. Other Echo rods like the Echo3s Ti, the Echo Boost Salt, or even the Ion XL all come in 10wt and are much easier to cast - especially for a full day.

If you don't know the Belgian cast, you might want to see if that helps, too.

 

[clsmith131]

I've had to overcome the opposite problem. I started with 8, 9, and 10wt rods, and have had to learn to dial it back a little for the trout weights. Sometimes, I'll end up fishing the 10wt all night for striper, then go out on a small stream the next day with a 4wt. It takes focus and patience. Also, it takes a while to get acquainted with a new rod. Hang in there, if you can, experiment with another line. I'm not familiar with that rod, but I have an echo 3s, and I'm a fan of their rods. You may try a more aggressive tapered line, work on your double haul, and try not to make more than 3 false casts. The false casts are what wears you out. Also, maybe yell "fore" for your buddy's sake

 

[el jefe]

Have you tried getting a running start?

 

[plecain]

With the right line I don't find a 10 wt. to be especially tiring.
I'm old (71) and small (145 lb.)
As a lot of advice above has said - use the right line, minimize or eliminate false casts and learn to double-haul.
My fishing with the 10 wt. is all in the saltwater, from the shore. I will do either one or zero false casts and will double-haul most of the time.
My rod is a Sage ONE 9' 10 wt. with the Rio Outbound Short 425 grain line. It's called a tropical line, but I haven't had any problems in the cold.
Keep at it. If you can borrow some different lines to try that may help.

 

[axle27]

Although there are many more in this forum with more experience than myself, I will throw out my two cents:

1- As I told my boss, you are not throwing a 10wt all day. It will wear you out.
2- "Let the rod do the work." that is hard to do, but shorter casts is the ticket.
3- Try not to false cast often. I've tried to learn to throw 40-60 ft with just one backcast and no hauling. It takes practice but it can be done effectively.
4- I say all of the above but it may come down to your setup. I use a 9wt with a 10wt line. In this particular rod/line setup, the rod is a cannon. I believe that it all comes down to what combination of rod/reel/line matches your casting style. When you find the sweet spot, casting effort plays less of a factor.

 

[bonefish41]

Are you sight casting for them most of the time or are you blind casting as I did with conventional plug reel? My 10 and 11 are all flats sight so the casts are twenty times. My 77 year shoulders are rotator cuff compromised. My suggestions are cut down on the number of casts sight fish more, minimize the number of strokes per cast try Wulff short headed line 24 feet Bermuda Shorts or up line to an 11 find a used 11 line on ebay and try to let the extra weight load the rod with one or two strokes...lastly have you ever tried spey or skagit casting with a two handed rod I have started but not with 11 to 13 foot rods but with modified 9 ...so I have started to practice picking up 50 to 60 feet of fly line without stripping in to recast using two hands and thus arms and shoulders...with my upper grip hand I pinch the fly line to the cork lower hand grabs the extended butt...I have been practicing with my 10 TCR and TCX and it really works for me with a deep load on pick up and patience on back stroke before the forward stroke it's a rocket...one cycle. However, I am not a strong caster and never could effectively accomplish a single handed pickup of 60 feet of fly line to re-cast but with two hands I can...but that's just practice not incoming fish. Maybe try two handed during your casting to spread the load between two shoulders...it doesn't look pretty but it works. If flyfishing for Musky is the same as blind plug casting if so the thought makes my shoulders ache when those one pound cow bell spinners engaged the water or cranking in a giant blob of plastic bristling with 8/0 hooks and then having to tip in water figure 8...one was enough

 

[brownbass]

A question would one of the shorter length rods help keep from tiring out as fast?

Bill

 

[wisconsin jim]

Boy! Lot of great advice here! I'm wondering if what brownbass posted might be the answer. If I went down to a 9wt rod with 10wt line--as someone suggested, or go with a two-handed or Spey rod would I still be able to use all of the big pike/muskie flies that I've purchased?

 

[ottosmagic13]

Boy! Lot of great advice here! I'm wondering if what brownbass posted might be the answer. If I went down to a 9wt rod with 10wt line--as someone suggested, or go with a two-handed or Spey rod would I still be able to use all of the big pike/muskie flies that I've purchased?

Yes. I use a 8wt Switch rod for large bass flies. I'm sure a true Spey rod could throw the bushiest pike/muskie flies.

Answers some of your questions about Two-handed/Spey rods: YouTube

 

[huronfly]

A spey rod is better for throwing tips, not necessarily bigger flies. I can throw much bigger flies on my SH 10wt than my 7 weight spey rods. A giant fly will be too much of an anchor to spey cast efficiently. Btw, I find throwing my 10wt just as easy as any other rod in the quiver, just got to make adjustments.

 

[brokeoff]

Isn't a good double haul the correct answer?

I say this because a 10 wt is the go to tarpon rod for blind casting all day.

I have seen a lot of Musky flies the size of small chickens. I would think a 10 wt would be required.

 

[jr spey]

I spend roughly 80% of my flyfishing time with 10-12 weights rods and musky fishing. I'm 70 years old and have compromised shoulders and elbows. But, it can be done. You've gotten lots of good advice and a few questionable ideas. First of all, speyfishing is NOT the answer. If you're wading maybe a @11 foot overhead surf flyrod might work. I've tried one in a boat and found it a little unwieldy. I've used 8 footers a lot (I own four of them specifically for musky) but in many boats you don't have enough length to do an effective figure eight. Driftboats work, but most jonboats and bass boats, etc. do not. The three best pieces of advice you've received are learning to effectively double haul, virtually eliminate false casts, and learn to do the Belgian cast. A few also speculated on your line choice. I can't emphasize enough how critical this is. Not only determining the grain weights your rod needs, but understanding that different tapers may change that grain weight enough to make a difference. You have to dial your system in much like speyfishers do with Scandi lines and to some degree Skagits. As I'm sure you're aware, that can be very difficult to do without spending mucho dinero. I don't have an answer there except borrow whatever you can find that should be close to matching your rod. I've cycled through about thirty musky lines over the last six or so years. One last idea: there are a couple of flyrods that are 9' but can be effectively cast two-handed. Most of them that advertise that have, in fact, only added an extended butt that's mostly used for figure eights. The fore-grip also has to be extended significantly to give one the leverage needed to really do an overhead two-handed cast. I know of four rods that meet that criteria (there may be more.) One is the old Beulah Bluewater 10/11. It's a fantastic musky rod except it's quite heavy. The upgrade from that is the Beulah Opal 11 weight. That one is quite a bit lighter and fishes well with a 450gr line or so (again depending upon the taper.) New this year is the Limit Creek Force 1 that needs something closer to 500gr. It has an almost identical handle to the Beulahs and is currently my number one rod. Finally, if you've got $850.00+ to burn, look at the Meiser 9'9" 909CX series. I've tried one and it's a dream, but I'm too hard on musky gear to invest that kind of money. If you go to the Warmwater Forum on this site you'll find a couple of threads where I give a review of rods, especially the Limit Creek rod. Of course, learning to correctly two-hand overhead cast will have a learning curve involved, but being able to go from SH to TH with the same rod/line can make a big difference during the course of a day. Good fishing!

 

[Hirdy]

Casting a 10wt rod should not be a hard thing to do, as long as you have the right line and you are casting properly. The heavier rods behave just as the lighter rods do, but if you have errors in your casting that make your cast inefficient, you may not notice how hard you're working with the lighter systems. Up the mass you're working with and those errors will make your day so much harder.

So my advice is to make sure you have the line that's appropriate for the fly you're throwing* and to make sure your casting is good.

Cheers,
Graeme

(I live in Australia so no muskies here, but I have fished for them once when I visited Michigan. I thought the flies I was given to fish with should have been thrown with a 12wt line. When I try it again, I'll make sure I bring a 12wt line to throw on my 10wt rod.)

 

[wjc]

You could always put up a video of your casting to eliminate that as the problem. There are a number of guys here who can let you know what's happening with your cast.

Too light a line could be a problem, too long a head or too long a leader. But if your casting is good, you would probably be able to immediately pinpoint any of those as problems yourself.

A lot of my friends who've trout fished for years get totally discouraged within minutes with a 12 wt. And it's not because they aren't strong enough to handle it. It's just casting technique. As others have said, you really need to double haul and be able to shoot line into the backcast to cast heavy rigs efficiently and without tiring.

 

[bigjim5589]

Many excellent replies! I use a 10 wt often for bass & Striped bass & as others have said, really not much of an issue. I have a TFO and don't consider it appreciably stiff, so perhaps as was said, that could be one part of your issue.

Double hauls are great for distance. However, they won't fix any casting technique issues that might otherwise be present. I can usually cast 50 ft or more without extra effort, depending on the fly I'm using and I use some rather large flies. Beyond about 70', I need to double haul to get a good cast. A lot of the time, I'm fishing at shorter distances than 50', so no problems there.

I know that many of the big flies used for Pike or Musky can be very wind resistant and heavy once wet. There are alternatives that would be lighter and shed water better. So, a lot can depend on the materials used to construct the fly. Perhaps, you should try some other flies that may not be as heavy if you haven't already done so. As much a I like natural materials, sometimes synthetic materials are the way to go to lighten a flies weight.

Since it was mentioned that the particular rod you're using may be quite stiff, can you try casting it with a different line, perhaps an 11 or 12 wt line? That might be a better ( & less costly) way to find out about your rod, if it's loading properly, than buying a another rod. Perhaps you have a buddy with a line that you could use. That would be my first consideration.

There could be many possible issues that are contributing to your casting problems, and certainly possible it's a compound problem with several things contributing.

 

[desmobob]

Large wind-resistant and waterlogged flies are hard to cast. Did you try casting with some slim, simple streamers to see if it's the rod or the flies you're having difficulty with?

Tight lines,
Bob