Next Level

[brokeoff]

I am wondering how one goes from being a decent caster to an excellent caster. I've been seriously fly fishing for about 2-3 years and take the casting portion very seriously. With no wind on the lawn I can consistently lay out 80-90 ft, can hit a hula hoop between 45 and 65 ft, and hit a bucket from 45 and in. This is all fine for fishing but I am wondering the best way to take it to the next level.

I currently lawn cast four to five nights a week and I don't think just repetition is the answer. What program can I use to accelerate my progress?

I guess my end goals would be to be able to put a fly in a bucket at 80-90 ft and do the same to 50 ft when it's windy. This might be a lofty goal but I might as well try.

 

[Ard]

Hi brokeoff,

Please don't think I'm being facetious in saying that based on what you say your current level of casting ability is the next level may be tournament casting and possibly representing a rod manufacturing company. I have been casting fly rods for a considerable length of time and could not do the things you are doing now. If you really want to advance I'd be looking to become FFF certified and then become involved in competition casting events. I would guess that one of the top gun FFF instructors could identify any flaws you may currently have that are holding you back.

 

[dillon]

In my opinion there is more than distance and accuracy involved in being a great caster. I think great form and mechanics are more important.

 

[mikechell]

I am unsure what "next level" you seek. Your casting ability, as you describe it, is better than most people I know.
I can recommend a couple of things:
1) Create or find some overhanging obstacles and learn to cast under them. I can put a fly about 6 to 10 feet under branches that are less than 2 feet off the water. (although not EVERY cast) It's caught me plenty of fish that wouldn't "come out" to get it.
2) Learn to roll cast farther distances.
3) Learn to hook cast left and right ... putting a fly behind obstructions to "out of sight" targets.

A good suggestion, above ... look into competitions. I've not seen any, but I know they exist somewhere.
3)

 

[brokeoff]

I have thought about becoming a certified instructor. I think I would learn a lot this way. I’m already teaching the curious kids in town how to cast when they ask to try while I’m practicing.

Dillon, while I agree with you, it seems that excellent form and mechanics are a prerequisite to accuracy and distance.

I guess I’m looking for drills/instruction.

Also, who are the current top casters right now?

 

[silver creek]

I am unsure what "next level" you seek. Your casting ability, as you describe it, is better than most people I know.
I can recommend a couple of things:
1) Create or find some overhanging obstacles and learn to cast under them. I can put a fly about 6 to 10 feet under branches that are less than 2 feet off the water. (although not EVERY cast) It's caught me plenty of fish that wouldn't "come out" to get it.
2) Learn to roll cast farther distances.
3) Learn to hook cast left and right ... putting a fly behind obstructions to "out of sight" targets.

A good suggestion, above ... look into competitions. I've not seen any, but I know they exist somewhere.
3)

I agree with Mike. You have plenty of distance.

There is pure distance casting, but for actual fishing, the ability to place slack and curves exactly where they are needed will get you more fish in difficult conditions.

There is also a difference between a true curve cast and and an underpowered curve cast. The easiest way I can explain it is that a curve cast can hit a target that is behind an obstruction. In the fly fishing masters competition a floating hoop was placed BEHIND a wall. The target hoop CANNOT be seen by the caster since it is behind the obstruction. The caster has to walk to the side to see behind the wall to locate the target and then walk back to the casting position to make the cast.

A true curve cast can curve the leader/line around the edge of the wall and place a fly into the hoop. For right handers, a left curve is easy but try to make a true 90 degree right curve is very difficult. Steve Rajeff did both on the fly fishing masters.

Most anglers will make a side arm overpowered hook. So a right handed overpowered hook will curve left around the wall. However the opposite underpowered cast that land in a right curve is essentially a side arm cast that collapses before it fully extends. The line falls in a right curve BUT it cannot curve around an object so it is not a true curve cast that can hook around the wall.

The ability to perform an accurate tuck cast for example is a cast that 99% of fly fishers cannot do in my opinion although it is a cast that is often referred to in nymphing books. How about a puddle or pile cast. Can you place all the slack into the leader and land the fly on target? How about a pendulum cast or a climbing hook cast which are parts of the shadow cast.

the Shadow Cast – the limp cobra

So there is casting for fishing and there is casting for distance. Casting for fishing is not about distance but about the ability to cast around and under obstructions and placing slack with accuracy.

 

[brokeoff]

I should address a few things. First, Most of my fishing is for stripers on the flats. I just started wading but have done a bunch of trips on a skiff. I mention this because the suggestions for various unusual casts is cool but not an immediate necessity for the fishing I do. Withthat being said, a pile cast on a deep flat could be useful just like on a river. Second, I went out to assess my earlier statements about my casting ability. I came up short. The rod was a 9 wt Asquith/Rio Permit/10 ft leader/sz 4 gotcha. My longest cast was 85 ft with the leader straightened out, but it took me a few tries to get this distance. With my Method 9 wt I can hit this on most attempts.. At 50 ft I did very well trying to hit a bucket. Out of ten casts I got it in once and was within a foot of it the majority of the time. So this is basically in line with the “hula hoop” accuracy. I had a tough time getting the fly in the bucket at 30 ft. I think at that distance with the bead chains start bouncing around a lot with 9 ft of rod, 11 ft of line out, and 10 ft of leader. With the exception of a few off casts I could get within a foot of the bucket but was without a false cast. Just picking up the previous cast and dropping it back down. When I started taking two false casts I started getting it in the bucket or hitting the outside about 50% of the time. The rest were with a foot but I couldn’t hear the ping of a direct hit. For fun I moved the bucket to 20 ft and it was challenging. That setup with just a few feet of fly line out is a pain. I did improve once I exaggerated my wrist movements.

Anyway, I wanted to report back because I felt like a bit of a liar after the casting sessions. Definitely need to continue working on the short game.

 

[dillon]

Dillon, while I agree with you, it seems that excellent form and mechanics are a prerequisite to accuracy and distance.

Very true, and to improve, you should seek the guidance of a professional caster to provide the drills/instruction you need to improve. I don't think you need a top caster, just find a certified instuctor or good caster in your area and work with them. I think it would be very hard to do it alone as you need the eyes and experience of an expert to guide you.

 

[clsmith131]

I'm no expert caster, but with anything, there is a learning curve. The last 10% will likely take you longer to dial in than the first 90%. I understand that fishing for stripers is often a distance game, but I too cast about 80'-90' on average, and have found that patience is a virtue and often you can slide into position to make a good cast. Generally, I try to get within 60'-70' before firing a cast toward a striper.

 

[brownbass]

Youtube can be your friend. Orvis and other sites offer very good instructions on all of the cast you may need to become a competent caster.

Bill

 

[jawz]

Hi brokeoff,

If you truly want to enter the dark side I think there's only one internet community that can provide you what you need.
Sexyloops

Check out their video masterclass and join the board.
Many of the worlds best casters to be found there providing assistance.

 

[dennyk]

In golf the saying is drive for show and putt for doe. By your description and the work you put into casting I'd say you have already reached a high level. I can see the need for distance in fishing for Stripers. With the ponds and streams I fish accuracy outweighs distance. I like the hula hoop target practice. I'll be using that with the neighbor kids. Thanks!

Denny

 

[jawz]

In golf the saying is drive for show and putt for doe.

Unless we're talking about miniature golf, that saying doesn't really make any sense.
And the same holds true for fishing.

These are not things that rule each other out. If you wan't to be the best that you can be then you better know how to do both.

 

[jpbfly]

Ard said"I have been casting fly rods for a considerable length of time and could not do the things you are doing now"so have I....and couldn't either
casting is not fishing....if you consider casting as a sport of its own why not .Some of my clients tell me I don't cast like the guys they have seen on youtube double hauling like mad and are surprised by the distance you can reach with a rollcast or an aerial rollcast,which are in many cases enough to catch fish.

 

[brokeoff]

I've started to lurk on sexyloops. Lots of good info on there. Also, looking into how I can start taking video of my casting to send to a guy on microskiff. He does mostly flats fishing so he understands the type of casting I'm looking to improve on.

I am going to start practicing some more freshwater stuff too. Things like accuracy with a closed stance and all of the "trick" casts. I think my saltwater casting can only benefit from understanding how the curve, tuck, and reach casts work.

 

[dillon]

You didn't mention the double haul, so I assume you have that down. Of course the ability to shoot line is a necessity for long distance casting. I posted a short video of me receiving instruction from a certified casting instructor friend on this forum. You might want to take a look at it just for fun. He pointed out some inherent flaws in my casting that I had been practicing for a long time. I'm still trying to work them out. I'm actually more concerned with the presentation aspect of the cast for trout fishing. The only time I need distance is when steelheading. But then it's easy to chuck a fly 90 ft or more with a two hander. When you get a video done, please post it here too. I would love to see it and I'm sure others would too. Good Luck!

 

[sweetandsalt]

Just about all pro-athletes work with a coach to identify those little anomalies we all have. Go to FFI's website and locate some Certified Instructors near you and contact them. I'm not a natural athlete but I know I have excessive three dimensionality in my back cast and my stops could be stronger and more symmetrical. If I focus on my flaws, I can address them somewhat...but then I fish and they are all right back where they have been forever.

 

[mnigro]

I'm not a natural athlete but I know I have excessive three dimensionality in my back cast and my stops could be stronger and more symmetrical. If I focus on my flaws, I can address them somewhat...but then I fish and they are all right back where they have been forever.

I’m Right there with you. Longtime habits are hard to break.

 

[ibookje]

With your progress so far I’d say tune into the efficiency. Casting that looks effortless, smooth and loop control is what distinguish the best casters from the rest.

You might need someone who is certified in some way to look at your casting to be able to improve to the ‘next level’.

 

[brokeoff]

After having an on the water meltdown, as mentioned in a different thread, I decided to get a tripod for my phone to take videos. I shot and viewed them yesterday and they were great...or not so great! I like being able to see myself cast, but I was immediately above to pick out a handful of flaws.

- straight rod tip path needs major work
- application of power, I need to work on smooth acceleration to stop
- my casting arc is messy

In addition to addressing some of the easy stuff myself, I should be able to find someone to coach me using this videos.

It seems like a great tool and I’d suggest anyone in my predicament look into videoing themselves. Also plenty humbling...which is good.