Problems Casting Heavier Flies

[Gaboon]

Hello, first off, let me start by saying, I only have about 2 months into fly fishing and, I spend most of my time just trying to learn how to cast properly. So far all 3 of my rods have WFXF line on them, Scientific Anglers Amplitude MPX to be exact. I recently purchased an 8 weight rod, the first fly I attempted to cast with it, is a Clouser Deep Minnow, pretty sure it's a size 6. I'm having a real hard time with closed loops and, the fly ends up going all over the place. I notice the same problem anytime I tie on something with a bit of weight to it. I'm too new at this to even explain my problem well, but needless to say, it looks like a complete mess when I cast. I'm not very good at casting with any fly, but it looks horrendous anytime it's got even the slightest bit of weight to it. I really want to understand why it's so much harder for me to get a decent cast with heavier flies. I'm sure I'm leaving lots of important info out, I can explain more, just not sure where to elaborate.

 

[bumble54]

Slow down, big heavy flies create drag, due to their bulk and mass, and try to hold the line back when casting, so need more time. I'm pretty sure you will be trying to bully things by casting too quickly and probably with too much force (we all do it at times).
Try to cast short first of all, gently and try to slow down your cast to match, you can gradually lengthen line adjusting your timing accordingly.
Lastly, try not to hit yourself or your rod with a weighted fly, a surefire way to see the tip break.

 

[nickj]

You also need to have an appropriately sized leader. You’ll need a heavier, and maybe shorter, leader to cast a larger, heavier fly than a smaller, lighter one. Try a 7 1/2 ft 4x and see if that helps.

 

[dennyk]

When I cast big heavy flies my leaders are rarely more the 6' in length. I'll use 3' of 15 pound test and 3 to 3 1/2 feet of 12 pound test for the tippet.

Denny

 

[mcnerney]

Casting heavy flies can be difficult, one thing to help is the Belgium cast, it is a constant tension cast and helps defeat the wind and works well with casting heavy flies.

YouTube

 

[bigjim5589]

Much of the fishing I do now is with large and/or heavy flies targeting bass & Striped Bass. The advice given here already should help you. As dennyk said, a shorter, heavier leader & tippet will be needed as you go bigger & heavier. I often use 20 lb tippet.

I'm not familiar with the lines you're using, but not all WF line are the same either. If that line has a taper that places most of the weight up front, then that's what you want for big & heavy flies. Mass needs mass to cast it. That's why there are specialty WF lines for some fish species, it's to enable to cast the large flies used. However, I don't consider a size 6 fly, appreciably large for an 8 wt.

Another consideration is the fly itself. Unfortunately, too many mass produced flies, like the Clouser Minnow have barbell eyes that are a lot heavier than they need be. Bob Clouser, who designed the flies says this quite often. Unless you're fishing in very deep water, or extremely strong currents, it may serve you best to obtain Clouser Minnows that have lighter weight eyes. In my own tying, and I've been tying a long time, from the first attempts at Clouser Minnows, to now, I learned that lighter weight barbell eyes could & should be used, which helped with not only casting, but the productivity of the fly itself. When tied in a manner that the barbells will invert the fly, as it should, and still not be like the proverbial lead balloon, the Clouser Minnow is intended to glide when retrieved. It will also have some jigging motion, but it's not intended to be a jig. Bob Clouser points this out often too.

If the flies you have are tied with barbell eyes that are way too heavy, you may need to find a different source for them, and get a properly tied Clouser Minnow. They're one of the most productive streamers ever devised, but are very much misunderstood and often not tied properly.

You also mention closed loops. Not sure what you mean, but when casting heavy flies, it's often necessary to open up the casting loop. Some have said to slow down, and opening up the loops is the result. If you've ever heard the term "chuck & duck", that's what you're doing with heavy flies much of the time, particularly if the fly is way heavier than necessary. In that case, distance will be sacrificed and especially if all the components of your rod, line, leader/tippet & fly are not well matched for those heavier flies.

Add your admitted inexperience and it all will make it difficult to cast bigger & heavier flies.

If you can, please post a pic of the flies you're using. I would be happy to send you a few that may better suit your situation.

 

[silver creek]

Casting heavy flies can be difficult, one thing to help is the Belgium cast, it is a constant tension cast and helps defeat the wind and works well with casting heavy flies.

^^^^ What Larry said. The oval/Belgian cast is the one to learn. The standard 180 degree opposed backcast to forward cast with a heavy fly does not work well because of the sudden shock of the heavy fly at the end of the back cast going into the forward cast. So the cast timing must be precise. To early and the fly is snapped; too late and the fly is dropping.

With the Belgian cast, there is constant tension and there is no sudden back and forth motion. Since the backcast is sidearm and the forward cast is overhead, the two casting planes are separated in space and therefore, there will not be any tailing loops to tangle the cast.

See my post below:

https://www.theflyfishingforum.com/...reamer-can-i-cast-3.html?posted=1#post1098921

 

[mnigro]

What rod models and weights do you have? I see an 8wt but what rod and what else do you own?

Formal lessons are extremely valuable and well worth the $50-$75 cost for an hour of instruction.

 

[mikemac1]

There is a relatively easy solution to effectively casting heavy flies—DON’T. The reason you are using a weighted fly is presumably to get some depth. With floating line, the actual depth you can present any fly effectively is relatively shallow. The longer the leader, getting the fly down effectively is even more difficult. For baitfish, crayfish, shrimp and crab patterns the most efficient and accurate method of getting flies down is with short, stout leaders and long sink tips. Using un-weighted or at the most lightly weighted flies (5-10 turns of lead free wire on the hook shank for stability), a long sink-tip will allow you to cast tight loops greater distances with accuracy. The SA Streamer Express (now SONAR) line of 25’ and 30’ sink tips are my go to fly lines for streamer work. Any fast 5 weight rod will handle a 150 grain tip well. A 200 grain tip will work well on both 6 and 7 weights. An investment in a high end sink tip like the SONAR line will end up being an insurance policy for your fly rod. Bead, Cones and Dumbbells are as mentioned above “Rod destroyers”. Don’t use them. Get the line down on a short leader and the fly will follow. My go to setup is a 5 weight SAGE XP and a 150 grain SONAR 30’ COLD. Wouldn’t leave home without it.

Hey Buddy | J Stockard Fly Fishing

 

[brokeoff]

I love big heavy flies. My go to fly is a size 2 clouser with a large lead dumbbell. I also like crab flies with a similar size dumbbell. In my opinion these two are not wind resistant flies, just like a lead bullet is not very wind resistant.

First, I would not choose an 8 wt to throw these flies. If the 8 wt and heavy clouser are the only options then I think the Belgian cast is a great idea. My problem with the Belgian cast is that it doesn't cut through wind for me. So the fly might be aerodynamic but the fly line gets held back. My solution has been to fish a fast 9 wt or 10 wt to get the clouser where I want it to be.

An exercise you might try is to practice on the lawn with clouser with the hook cut at the bend. With the leader and some line out start making big circles, then figure 8s, then cast in the usual straight line. They have a video of this on sexy loops. I think if you try it with and without the clouser you will see where the weight is shocking your system. Try casting a normal cast, maybe a few line weights higher if you can borrow a rod, or maybe a shorter head would work, and mess around with the Belgian cast.

I should also say, my understanding of the Belgian cast is the very dramatic oval. I bet a slight ovalization of the normal cast could make a big improvement.

 

[randyflycaster]

Hard to provide a full answer without seeing you cast. Are you casting like Lefty Kreh or like Joan Wulff/Steve Rajeff? One problem I used to have was that at the end of my back cast the fly would bounce and I would lose line tension and the fly would go all over the place behind me. The solutions: execute a slower back cast or begin the forward cast earlier, a few feet before the back cast unrolls. If you're casting like Wulff and Rajeff try not to pull your elbow back during the back cast. The elbow does move back, but mostly because of reward body rotation. If you pull your elbow back you will lower the rod tip from the target line on both the back and forward casts, and, if you're casting a heavy fly, you might hit and break your rod tip. Personally, I don't cast heavy flies. Instead, I use sinking tips,

Randy