Can a different rod help with casting or am I tricking myself?

[hendodesign]

I recently bit the bullet and got a 9' 5wt G Loomis NRX after 10 years of fishing with my entry level SAGE Flight 9' 5wt rod.

I always had trouble getting good loops and distance with the Sage Flight. I could hear the line rattling against the guides and I probably looked like a giant noob false casting for days trying to get an extra few feet.

While I havent taken the NRX on water yet I did some lawn casting in the park the other day just to see if I could notice a difference. I stayed with the SA GPX Mastery line so the line didn't influence me, but I honestly felt like I could feel the rod loading much better which made timing my hauls a bit easier. I was able to easily hit 50' out from me where the Flight would show my limited skills and peter out about 30' with the same line/reel.

So I am curious if others have felt a difference in their casting or if I am just trying to trick myself into thinking I can cast a little better because its a more expensive rod.

 

[rangerrich99]

The short answer: yes. All other things being equal, a premium quality rod can improve your casting, due to its better engineering, higher quality materials, etc. It doesn't have to, as a big part of the equation is still the individual's casting technique. But a better rod can make a real difference.

Conversely, a great caster with great technique/mechanics can cast a low-end rod better/farther than a novice with a premium one.

Premium line can also enhance a person's casting.

Note that there is a point when one will experience diminishing returns. For years I've personally felt that at around the $600 mark the increase in rod cost doesn't match the increase the performance returned, but it's been awhile since I've reviewed the subject and the goalposts may have moved since then.

Peace.

 

[dillon]

If you take both rods back to the park and cast them alternately with the same line you may be able to better tell for yourself, why you can cast one better than the other. You may also want to try a new line, like a Rio Gold with the NRX, it may get better yet...

 

[trout stalker]

I'll try to explain what I have learned over the years. First off try lawn casting several rods and find out if you like a medium rod or a more faster rod. Casting stroke has a lot on what type of rod I want. If my stroke is slow I will want a medium rod or if it is fast then I would want a fast rod. Match the line to the rod. One 5wt rod from XX company may cast well lets say with RIO Gold and another Rod from XXXX company will cast well lets say with RIO Grand.

With the above said I try and do some research on a rod I like. I try to find out what people recommend for fly lines on the rod that I am interested in.

Here is an example of what happened to me. I purchased a Saint Croix 9" 5wt and used Cortland 444 line on it. I could not cast it to save my life. I then tried other low cost rods and same or worse results. I then went to a fly shop and was handed a R.L. Winston 5wt. I casted that rod very well to the point I bought one and the fly shop put SA Trout on my reel. I thought I was sold on the high end rods and then I purchased another Winston and couldn't get the results like the other one. I was discouraged and disliked the second Winston. So one day I was out lawn casting my old Saint Croix and used the SA Trout line. The rod came alive and loaded well. Some times the correct line for the rod is all you need.

I hope that I explained my experience well enough. In short you have to dial in your casting stroke to rod to line. Ask for advice from people on this forum and fly shops. I still fish Winston rods but I am not to good to fish a less expensive rod.

 

[Ard]

I won't tell you that a new or better designed rod cannot improve your casting but...……….. The problem I see and read about the most seems to be that people do way too much false casting before loading up a back cast and letting the forward cast fly.

In order to make ten or more false casts with 40 - 50 feet or more of line in the air a person must have a very advanced sense of timing - muscle control and hand to eye coordination. Some have all of these in spades, others do not.

If I were to take a rod out onto my lawn to make some casts I can (seriously) make casts of 70 or more feet consistently with 2 false casts. I do not believe that I am an exceptionally gifted caster, I do believe I have learned that excess false casting leads to all sorts of problems like trailing loops and etc.

BYW. the rod I would do the above mentioned cast demo with would be a 1979 Orvis Far & Fine just 7 foot 9 inches in length with a five weight line.

 

[hendodesign]

I agree with the false casting advice. I’ve heard that in the past. I have experienced first hand how it’s counterproductive. I’ll have to try a Rio Gold and SA MPX to see if different lines will help.


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[Ard]

I agree with the false casting advice. I’ve heard that in the past. I have experienced first hand how it’s counterproductive. I’ll have to try a Rio Gold and SA MPX to see if different lines will help.


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That rod I mentioned; the reel is loaded with a Scientific Anglers Mastery WF 5 I bought around 2001.

I'm getting old enough to be stubborn and I think there is so much over marketing in the fly line business that a fella has to choose between too many different silver bullets these days. Generally speaking, if there is a problem somewhere in the mechanics of your casting a line won't change that.

Please excuse me if that sounded blunt but I've been reading a few posts recently about "lawn casting". I think it's fine just to get the feel of a rod but we have people who are using this as a training method for fishing. It's just not the same and I think (based on what I read) it inspires just what I described in the false cast overkill.

Something else to consider is that when dry fly fishing excessive false casts over a targeted area will actually put fish down in many cases...….. Every river I fish is iced up at this time but after the breakup I'm making a new video focusing on using my leader and mini head system on single hand rods. I'll be using that 7'9" as well as 9 foot rods to demonstrate both overhead and single hand Spey with weighted flies and mini heads built into leaders. If you stick around until that gets uploaded you'll see what I mean about casting with few false casts. I only have one instructional video online now and am not in the video business, I focus on fishing and being efficient when you or I do it. You can find the video about streamer fishing in the sticky threads at the top of the Spey fishing sub forums or google my name and streamer fishing techniques. It's not about me wanting to be famous, it's about trying to explain some things that some folks have not figured out on their own.

Anyway, welcome to the forum and I hope you can get things smoothed out quickly, it sounds like you got a really good fly rod with this last purchase.

Ard

 

[spm]

Welcome to the forum.

I think most are saying yes, a better rod helps, but nothing beats technique. I always think buying a new rod will help my casting ...it doesn't. When you think about it, Ard's comment that he uses a 40 year old for casting 70' is very telling.

Both the rods you have are good. Work on developing your casting with them, using only two false casts. Even if one has been fly fishing for a long time, a refresher casting lesson at a local fly shop can help correct any bad habits that might have been picked up. It does for me.

steve

 

[silver creek]

I recently bit the bullet and got a 9' 5wt G Loomis NRX after 10 years of fishing with my entry level SAGE Flight 9' 5wt rod.

I always had trouble getting good loops and distance with the Sage Flight. I could hear the line rattling against the guides and I probably looked like a giant noob false casting for days trying to get an extra few feet.

While I havent taken the NRX on water yet I did some lawn casting in the park the other day just to see if I could notice a difference. I stayed with the SA GPX Mastery line so the line didn't influence me, but I honestly felt like I could feel the rod loading much better which made timing my hauls a bit easier. I was able to easily hit 50' out from me where the Flight would show my limited skills and peter out about 30' with the same line/reel.

So I am curious if others have felt a difference in their casting or if I am just trying to trick myself into thinking I can cast a little better because its a more expensive rod.

I wonder if the difference is that your natural casting rhythm and casting stroke is a better match to the relatively faster rod action of the GLoomis NRX than the Sage Flight action which is slower. In other words, it is not specifically that you miraculously happened to buy an NRX and that is the magic rod for you but rather that you would cast better with ANY fast action fly rod.

Fly casting is a combination of the rod stroke path and stroke timing. What I am suggesting is that your natural casting stoke and timing is too fast for the Sage Flight.

To test my theory try another fast action rod other than an NRX.

 

[gpwhitejr]

All my rods are budget rods (the most expensive is a $200 Pocket Water; the best overall casting rod is the Fenwick Aetos). I have been tempted to go to a shop that allows test casting of high end rods, to see if it really makes a difference, but I have successfully resisted that potentially expensive temptation so far!

By the way, my yard is surrounded by woods, so the longest lawn practice I can do is about 50 feet, after which the line tangles in the trees on the back and forward casts.

 

[willyf]

YES! Sweetandsalt and I both saw it at the NJ show a few years ago. We took a whole lineup of rods (I think they were 6s, but could have been 5s) outside to cast with a group of anglers with a variety of casting strokes and abilities. For my Dad, the Douglas Sky brought his cast to life. Instantly he had better loops, more distance, and more control. For another guy the Winston Air was magic in his hands. Feel is one of the most underrated qualities in a fly rod (and it's rated pretty highly), and for some people a rod that feels right can instantly fix minor casting flaws--and it's because the rod has the right feel for the caster.

The important point here is that it's not necessarily higher end or "better" rods that will make you a better caster. It's all about the right fit. Sure there can be a placebo effect, but I've seen people cast multiple rods of the same line weight in rapid succession, and one just casts way better for them. Often it's not a rod that casts way better for me.

 

[upstreamcast]

Nothing like owning and casting a premium Fly Rod.....but, it's not solely about the rod. I've taught a lot of folks over the years...beginners, intermediate and advanced (their opinion not mine). I use middle of the road rods with clients....mostly Orvis Clearwater and Recon rods. Proper technique is the key. After you have technique down, that's when you will notice the difference between low-end and high-end fly rods. My feeling is, with proper technique a caster should be able to cast a broom handle fairly efficient. Wouldn't want to cast it all day, mind you, but, it can be done. I recommend to clients a moderately priced rod to start (doesn't have to be the most expensive, but it should be quality (quality components...eyes, cork, seat, etc.) and a quality fly line...and lots of practice. Watch videos (Mel Krieger, Joan Wulff, etc.). Watch Flyfishers on the water (critique their technique). Conentrate on the casting elements. Even record a video of your casting.....then critique it. Fly Fishing is all about the cast. Fly Fishing for me is all about filling the senses....not the creel.

 

[JoJer]

My daughter just experienced late last year. I'd bought her a 4pc 9' 5 wt TFO that was on sale at Cabela's for $99. It was an upgrade over the 8.5' 5/6 wt WW Grigg she had been using. She's had the TFO for about a year. We were on the river here in town, mostly to get her daughter some casting practice, and the lesson was over: G-daughter was playing with a crawdad she'd found. My daughter and I were both trying to hit a seam near the opposite bank, a bit farther where I was down stream. I had her come down to where I was and gave her my 9' 6 wt TFO Pro series, which is quite a bit faster than her rod. She dropped the fly right into the seam on her first cast and her jaw about hit the ground. Epiphany moment. A different rod can make all the difference.

 

[upstreamcast]

Certainly fly rods with varying actions can serve different casting styles and purposes. A fast action rod is better for speed and distance than a slow action rod. Winston rods are known for their slow to moderate actions which serve the Dry Fly purist (I am a Winston fan). Sage is known for faster all-around rods (although I love casting the Sage MOD with it's more moderate action as compared to the X or the real explosive Ignitor). If a flyfisher develops a favored technique (sometimes good, sometimes bad), usually it will lend itself to a certain type rod...which they will cast better. Some rods are more forgiving, tis true. Others require spot on technique to deliver a good cast. An accomplished caster can adopt to various rods (actions, lengths, weight, etc.) Technique is the key. Learn proper technique and you will be able to cast any rod proficiently. Generally speaking, the fast action rod equals speed and distance........the slower rod requires a more relaxed casting stroke and enables a more delicate presentation (Dry Fly) at close to moderate distances.

 

[Bigfly]

Have come to think that false casting is a hold-over from dry fly fishing, and trying to dry your fly.
I do most of my fishing without any false casts......Rule #1 is ."Don't tell them you are coming." and that's mostly what happens in false casting.
Get away from overhand casts first of all. Mostly they show that you have only one way to get it done.
Water load, roll cast, and snap t.......
One of the things that hold us back in my opinion....is our early indoctrination.....
I'm talking, self taught casting, training on grass, and the overhead cast as the only way to enter this sport.
Get some instruction, train on a puddle if nothing better available, and don't airialize your cast......
A good rod helps too......

Jim

 

[upstreamcast]

"Most anglers, especially tyros, false cast too often. Three false casts should be sufficient for any throw and two is better. One is perfect."
-Joe Brooks

You can't catch a fish if your fly is in the air. Your odds of catching fish is increased with the amount of time your fly is on the water. A good caster can throw his line in any direction, needing, maybe, one false cast. Better if you can cast, change direction, shoot line with one cast. Instead of false casting to dry your flies, use fumed silica when fly starts to sink....especially with CDC.

 

[cb3fish]

If you don't take a few lessons or learn to cast better- your going to be a bad caster with a nice rod...Sorry
CB

 

[fishing hobo]

If you don't take a few lessons or learn to cast better- your going to be a bad caster with a nice rod...Sorry
CB

I say this all the time. Getting lessons and PRACTICING will give you the basics right and improve from there. If your technique is poor on one rod you will not benefit from using a higher priced rod. I was shite and I knew it, getting lessons from qualified instructors helped hugely over the last few years. I still want to improve and instructors will give you inspiration/tips to improve.

 

[upstreamcast]

If you don't take a few lessons or learn to cast better- your going to be a bad caster with a nice rod...Sorry
CB

:thumbup: Tis true!

 

[upstreamcast]

I say this all the time. Getting lessons and PRACTICING will give you the basics right and improve from there. If your technique is poor on one rod you will not benefit from using a higher priced rod. I was shite and I knew it, getting lessons from qualified instructors helped hugely over the last few years. I still want to improve and instructors will give you inspiration/tips to improve.

:thumbsupu Improving technique, improves casting overall.