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Thread: Grip question

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    south florida
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    Default Re: Grip question

    Sorry Osseous for the misinformation.

    All the videos I've seen of him were of him casting sidearm. I've never taken a class from anyone so I don't know much except what I've seen on videos.

    However, that has nothing to do with what I said about the mechanics of casting in the post that I posted above. If you use a thumb "behind" grip with a straight overhead cast, it is not possible to comfortably and ergonomically use a long casting stroke without hooking the back cast.

    And hooked backcasts are not a good a good setup for non-hooked forward casts.
    http://www.miterclamp.com/Images/N_Amer_FF.jpg Cheers, Jim

  2. #22

    Default Re: Grip question

    Quote Originally Posted by wjc View Post
    Sorry Osseous for the misinformation.

    All the videos I've seen of him were of him casting sidearm. I've never taken a class from anyone so I don't know much except what I've seen on videos.

    However, that has nothing to do with what I said about the mechanics of casting in the post that I posted above. If you use a thumb "behind" grip with a straight overhead cast, it is not possible to comfortably and ergonomically use a long casting stroke without hooking the back cast.

    And hooked backcasts are not a good a good setup for non-hooked forward casts.
    All good, man.

    A big part of teaching his method is opening the stance, and "turning over" the thumb so that you do not hook the back cast. We let the line fall to the ground and analyze it- looking for that telltale curve inward... which robs load and distance on delivery of the forward cast. Once a student masters that, plus a progressive stroke- they begin to really load the rod. This pic illustrates the target posture (ignoring the haul portion). He got here not by "sweeping" to the side, but with the line traveling over the top.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  3. #23

    Default Re: Grip question

    Quote Originally Posted by osseous View Post
    All good, man.

    A big part of teaching his method is opening the stance, and "turning over" the thumb so that you do not hook the back cast. We let the line fall to the ground and analyze it- looking for that telltale curve inward... which robs load and distance on delivery of the forward cast. Once a student masters that, plus a progressive stroke- they begin to really load the rod. This pic illustrates the target posture (ignoring the haul portion). He got here not by "sweeping" to the side, but with the line traveling over the top.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    Can you explain more about what you mean when you say "turning over the thumb"? I've watched some videos of some thumb on top casters who rotate the hand on the back cast where the reel rotates outwards to the side as they lift the rod. Is that what you are referring to? Thanks.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Grip question

    Quote Originally Posted by mattwood View Post
    Can you explain more about what you mean when you say "turning over the thumb"? I've watched some videos of some thumb on top casters who rotate the hand on the back cast where the reel rotates outwards to the side as they lift the rod. Is that what you are referring to? Thanks.
    I look forward to Osseous' reply.

    My answer to your question is that I answered it in my original post when I wrote “Al Kyte discusses the various grips in the article below. He says that it may look like casters start with the thumb on top grip, but as they cast; they switch to the key grip.” Depending on the degree of rotation of the thumb on the backcast, the actual forward cast can be performed with the key grip or palm out grip. Your observation is EXACTLY the point I made in my original post = just because a caster holds the rod with the thumb on top grip in the neutral position does NOT mean they actually CAST with the thumb on top grip on both the forward and back casts!!!!

    Read the FFI document below that I recommended:

    THE CASTING CLINIC

    ”Grips are typically pictured, described and taught with the reel on the underside of a fly rod that is pointed forward - as if you haven’t yet made your first back cast. Thus a thumb on top grip (Figure 1) will typically be rotated upward during the back cast to provide thumb support behind the forward cast. However some of us also turn our hands outward during the back cast and may make the forward cast with the reel out to the side. This further complicates Casting Grip the notion of grip, because the hand position during the cast is then different from the one taught to start the movements. Thus, those of us who rotate our hands outward may grasp the rod with the thumb on top, but make the forward cast with the thumb off to the side. The casting grip I analyze is the one that does the work - the hand position as we start the forward cast.

    In other words, how we hold the grip in the neutral position sometimes has NOTHING to do with the grip we ACTUALLY cast with.
    Regards,

    Silver



    "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

  5. #25

    Default Re: Grip question

    I did read that article Sliver. It was very helpful. After practicing some more with different grips, I think I will stick with the 3 point grip or some variant of it. When I cast with the thumb on top for too long, the arthritis starts acting up. It's a shame when stuff like golf and tennis cut into my fun with flyfishing.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Grip question

    Quote Originally Posted by mattwood View Post
    Can you explain more about what you mean when you say "turning over the thumb"? I've watched some videos of some thumb on top casters who rotate the hand on the back cast where the reel rotates outwards to the side as they lift the rod. Is that what you are referring to? Thanks.
    Sure- please look at the pic I posted (twice) of Lefty. This position is key to understanding the long stroke he advocates for heavier tackle, wind, big flies...etc. If you pause on the back cast and let your line fall to the ground, in your version of the position Lefty is in here- and you see ANY curve in your fly line laying there on the ground- there is a good chance you will also be staring at your entire thumbnail. Your hand will have traveled in an arc to that position- and your stop to deliver the cast had produced a curved line because of that path of your hand prior to the stop. It is extremely hard to arrest this- particularly as we strain for distance, or against a wind. If, as Lefty does here, you led with your thumbnail, up and over in a straight plane- you will see < 1/2 of your thumbnail at the stop. Your line MUST lay arrow straight and 180 degrees from your target. With this long stroke, an open stance and an acceleration to a hard stop- you can throw the entire line without a haul. The hand must travel close to your body initially, then out and away- while always leading with that thumbnail. (Note the reel angle)

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

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