Revisiting Tenkara?

[james w 3 3]

Tried Tenkara last year, but it didn't really excite me as my light Tenkara rod just seemed so limited in what I could do. It seemed like all I could do is fish the top 6" of water, pretty small fish, pretty small water.

So a couple weeks ago, on a tumbling Sierras stream with pretty strong flows I watch a guy fishing a variant method. A pretty small obviously heavy bugger with a pretty stiff (compared to what mine had been) looking rod, cast upstream, downstream, across, dead drifted, you name it. After a while it looked like he was getting tired of catching fish and sat down for a beverage so I quickly struck up a conversation.

He was fishing a Daiwa kiyose rod that flexed waaaayyyyyy less than my (since sold) rod, nothing but tippet a bit shorter than the rod, and a little heavy beadless bugger. He said he fishes heavy Czech type nymphs the same way.

Maybe I was wrong about thinking Tenkara wasn't for me.

Anyone come across this type of Tenkara fishing before?

I'm thinking I need to give this another try, but differently than before.

 

[tcorfey]

James,

I have two Nissin Fine Mode Kosansui "Keiryu" rods. These are like a Tenkara rod but built for fishing live bait with weight in faster streams. I read that and said perfect for nymphing in fast water!

I was right these rods are great for that and use them to fish pocket water like the Pit River #3 and up in the Sierras. I have caught trout up to 16-17 inches and they are very effective. They are not only good for nymphing but also for dry fly work up to 20' away using light line and tippet. I used them to put a bunch of cub scouts on stocker trout in the upper McCloud river a few weeks ago using a black parachute ant pattern.

I see you are in Sacramento area and I live in the bay area CA so if you want to try to get together and try it out sometime let me know.

I bought the 450cm and the 320 cm. I usually use the 320 because it is lighter but occasionally use the longer rod if I need the reach.

I find them great for climbing around the boulders and dead falls as I just collapse them and stick them in a sheath on my belt that leaves both hands free for climbing.

Now I will never give up my western fly rods but in the right environment they are very effective. Many times I will take one along with me and use it for nymphing and my western rod for dry droppers and drys. When I reach an area that is narrow and deep I just pull out the tenkara (Keiryu) rod with a nymph and some split shot then work the area and collapse it when I am done. Sure saves time on re-rigging my western rod twice.

Regards,
Tim C.

 

[ia_trouter]

I mentioned here more than once I have done Tenkara just a bit. Most of my exposure though is watching others because it is fairly popular around here. There isn't much you can't do on a small to moderate sized stream. Now if you are wading to your armpits you'd probably be better off with the Cabela's Three Forks combo in that situation. I haven't seem much Tenkara streamer work going on but there is no reason it wouldn't work fine. Many of them I have talked to do the one fly for everything deal. I'm not sure what started that but it is unnecessarily limiting IMO. Who really cares that you only use one fly all day, everyday?

 

[dhaynes]

When Tenkara was first introduced, long, flexible rods were the order of the day. But as its popularity has grown a great variety of rod types have emerged. The Kieryu style you mentions is generally stiffer and a good choice for fishing weighted flys, nymphing, streamers or for large fish that need a little extra backbone to bring in. The stiffer rods also allow a better hookset.

Visit Chris Stewart's webpage at Tenkarabum.com and read the opening essay under RODS. You can get a quick review of the styles of tenkara rods and their relative merits.

I fish a Fine Mode Kosansui 270 on small, busy streams. My main rod, however, is a Nissin Royal Stage 360 in 6-4. While I like it a lot, I sometimes wish I had purchased the 7-3 rod instead.

 

[james w 3 3]

Thanks guys, that's pretty much what I was hoping for in feedback.

Wow, Tenkarabum provided a plethora of information . . . thank goodness there was a Giants game just starting when I opened it. Took almost the entire game to confirm my hopes and settle on a purchase.

I did enjoy my initial Tenkara efforts and look forward to revisiting this with more versatility at my disposal. As the heat of summer continues to narrow my stillwater opportunities I'll have something new to learn!

 

[dhaynes]

Took almost the entire game to confirm my hopes and settle on a purchase.

So what did you settle on?

 

[james w 3 3]

I have a Daiwa Kiyose 36SF coming from Japan.

eBay vendor $109 free expedited shipping, at that price I could not resist, but that did not influence the decision, just the source.

Didn't want to go any longer than that, good reviews, and if I fall head over heels I can then go whole hog.

Now the waiting.

Oh yeah . . . Giants won!

 

[ia_trouter]

You'll have to let us know how large of a streamer it will handle when your rig arrives. Or have you received an answer to that question already?

 

[james w 3 3]

You'll have to let us know how large of a streamer it will handle when your rig arrives. Or have you received an answer to that question already?

Expect an extensive review after my last fishing vacation in mid-October.
I plan on giving this a good long effort. There are just sooooo many places in the Sierras that this needs testing.

 

[vanwagw]

Tried Tenkara last year, but it didn't really excite me as my light Tenkara rod just seemed so limited in what I could do. It seemed like all I could do is fish the top 6" of water, pretty small fish, pretty small water.

So a couple weeks ago, on a tumbling Sierras stream with pretty strong flows I watch a guy fishing a variant method. A pretty small obviously heavy bugger with a pretty stiff (compared to what mine had been) looking rod, cast upstream, downstream, across, dead drifted, you name it. After a while it looked like he was getting tired of catching fish and sat down for a beverage so I quickly struck up a conversation.

He was fishing a Daiwa kiyose rod that flexed waaaayyyyyy less than my (since sold) rod, nothing but tippet a bit shorter than the rod, and a little heavy beadless bugger. He said he fishes heavy Czech type nymphs the same way.

Maybe I was wrong about thinking Tenkara wasn't for me.

Anyone come across this type of Tenkara fishing before?

I'm thinking I need to give this another try, but differently than before.

that's new to me

 

[pszy22]

I talk to a couple of guys who fly fish competitively in international competitions.

They have one goal, catch more fish than the other guys. They aren't interested in seeing how far they can cast or figuring out the subspecies of every insect they run across astream.

How do they fish? They use a long light rod to fish only a long light leader. Sound familiar?

The fly line never leaves the snake guides, it just connects the long leaders to the reel. (They have to use both a reel and a marginal fly line per the rules). No float indicators, split shot, and in most cases, no heavily weighted flies. Just one or two lightly weighed nymphs, which most of the time are very generic looking.

You can pick up some good ideas from how the competitive folks fish.

THese guys catch alot of fish, many of their techniques, flies and sighters are directly applicable to fishing a fixed length line set up if that's the way you choose to fish.

 

[goshawk87]

I talk to a couple of guys who fly fish competitively in international competitions.

They have one goal, catch more fish than the other guys. They aren't interested in seeing how far they can cast or figuring out the subspecies of every insect they run across astream.

How do they fish? They use a long light rod to fish only a long light leader. Sound familiar?

The fly line never leaves the snake guides, it just connects the long leaders to the reel. (They have to use both a reel and a marginal fly line per the rules). No float indicators, split shot, and in most cases, no heavily weighted flies. Just one or two lightly weighed nymphs, which most of the time are very generic looking.

You can pick up some good ideas from how the competitive folks fish.

THese guys catch alot of fish, many of their techniques, flies and sighters are directly applicable to fishing a fixed length line set up if that's the way you choose to fish.

Reasoning like this is going to lead to me carrying a 3weight for dries and tenkara rod in my pocket for nymphs. I can just feel it.

 

[pszy22]

Tenkara rods excel for dry fly fishing. They are really designed to delicately present unweighted flies while allowing long drag free drifts. Depending on how you are set up, if you want to change from fishing nymphs to fishing dries, all you need to change is the fly.

 

[goshawk87]

Tenkara rods excel for dry fly fishing. They are really designed to delicately present unweighted flies while allowing long drag free drifts. Depending on how you are set up, if you want to change from fishing nymphs to fishing dries, all you need to change is the fly.

I can see that. I really enjoy my 3 weight for dries though.

My interest is more that I have toying with the idea of trying euro style nymphing, and tenkara seems like a simple way to do that. The fact that I can collapse the rod down and have it be a supplement to my regular fishing just makes it that much more appealing.

 

[yikes]

I've recently been watching "Modern Nymphing" (available on Vimeo) with Lance Egan, and have been asking myself if I could do euro nymphing with my Tenkara Rod. the answer is a qualified yes:
If you start your cast upstream: as it drifts downstream, on a Tenkara rod you are "high sticking" to maintain the proper depth. The rod tip might come closer to you, pulling it slightly out of lane (depending on angle). Also, when you set the hook, your rod tip is high in the air.
The competitive euro-nymphers seem to keep their rods low most of the way through the drift, and the strip line (actually a super-long leader) in and out of the guides. The don't high-stick very much. Part of the reason is to prevent the weight of the fly line from pulling the leader back into the guides, but the other reason is to set the hook low.

 

[pszy22]

I totally agree with you - the systems are exactly the same, only totally different.

Tenkara rods aren't really designed to euro nymph, they are designed to optimally deliver and manipulate a weightless fly delicately and accurately. The competitive nymph fishers use a system designed to fish a weighted fly.

I think there is an opportunity to borrow methods, but not without modifying how they are best used based on the strengths and limitations of the equipment being used. I guess that's the best one can expect if they choose to venture into the gray areas.

 

[CM_Stewart]

If you keep your drifts relatively short (which is more productive anyway), and if you are fishing a little up but mostly across, you can keep a tenkara or keiryu rod at nearly the same angle for the entire drift, and you can strike low and downstream.

You can keep the nymphs in the same lane by extending your arm at the beginning of the drift and pulling it in as the drift progresses. By the time you would have to start extending your arm again it is time to pick up for a new cast.

Using a tenkara or keiryu rod is more effective with a short line than with a long line, but a 13' tenkara or keiryu rod will give you better drifts than a 10' fly rod, so the advantage isn't all towards the fly rod.

Fixed line rods aren't legal for competitions, so competition anglers don't spend practice time using them, but the rods can still be extremely effective for Euronymphing. Many tenkara rods are really a bit too soft to fish a pair of heavy nymphs in current, which is why anglers like the one mentioned in the original post choose rods like the Daiwa Kiyose (or now the Daiwa Keiryu-X which has replaced it).

 

[yikes]

Yes, with Tenkara you can extend and retract your arm as necessary to remain in lane. The one downside is that heavily weighted flies on an unbalanced rod setup can make it fatiguing to stretch out your arm all day during competition.
The nymph rods are balanced by adding counterbalance weight (often just a heavier reel) at the butt end of the rod. Perhaps a tenkara rod could be modified similarly.

 

[goshawk87]

If you keep your drifts relatively short (which is more productive anyway), and if you are fishing a little up but mostly across, you can keep a tenkara or keiryu rod at nearly the same angle for the entire drift, and you can strike low and downstream.

You can keep the nymphs in the same lane by extending your arm at the beginning of the drift and pulling it in as the drift progresses. By the time you would have to start extending your arm again it is time to pick up for a new cast.

Using a tenkara or keiryu rod is more effective with a short line than with a long line, but a 13' tenkara or keiryu rod will give you better drifts than a 10' fly rod, so the advantage isn't all towards the fly rod.

Fixed line rods aren't legal for competitions, so competition anglers don't spend practice time using them, but the rods can still be extremely effective for Euronymphing. Many tenkara rods are really a bit too soft to fish a pair of heavy nymphs in current, which is why anglers like the one mentioned in the original post choose rods like the Daiwa Kiyose (or now the Daiwa Keiryu-X which has replaced it).

When did they discontinue the Daiwa Kiyose? I am currently looking at options...