Pike / Muskie fishing

[FlyBoyWray]

With the weird temp we have been having here in the mid west this winter, dose anyone have any idea when to head out for some pike? Will this weather screw up the spawn?

I live in Nebraska and I have always gone out just after ice out...

Would anyone be willing to share some patterns as well? I have always just winged it when it comes to pike fly patterns.
:frogdance

 

[NDflyfisher]

You don't need a big assortment of flies for pike. Use decievers, clousers, EP's and bunnys in the biggest sizes you can cast and give them a lot of flash.

 

[mcnerney]

FlyBoy: Can't help with the patterns as I have never fished for pike. Great photo and nice fish, I bet they are a blast to fish on a fly rod.

Larry

 

[Palmer Smallie]

This is a pattern I have been working on for Muskie and big Smallies...

 

[Palmer Smallie]

This is just one of my streamer patterns I use for mid to late summer Muskie

 

[troutdoorsman]

Around MN I usually hit the water when temps got up to around 60-65 degrees. They start getting more active when water heats up. Dahlberg divers, clousers of almost any color patterns and deceivers work well for pike, muskies and bass.

 

[Guest1]

The Best Pike fly ever is the Reynold's Pike fly. I tie them with a heart bead from the craft store for a head which eliminated the last tooth vulnerable spot. They work so well I don't even think it matters what color they are.

 

[FlyBoyWray]

Thanks to all for the information.

Diver Dan, is your fly all rabbit? and how deep do you fish them?

:secret:

 

[PikeFlyGuy]

The problem I have with bunny strip flies is they hold a lot of water, making them tiring to cast. Also, if not weedless (and sometimes even with weed gurads) the bunny strip tends to foul on the hook during the cast, ruining the effectiveness of the fly. My favorites are tied with marabou - 2 flared reds first, with 2 flared white (or yellow or chartrouse) tied over and outside them. Then add 10 pieces of pearl flashabou on top, about 2" longer than the wings. 2 large dumbell eyes (tungsten is best) tied on the bottom of the head help bring strikes and focus the fish on the front of the fly, where the hook is. The fly can be tied hook point up, between the wings, which makes it virtually weedless. A mylar tube boidy (or wound silver tinsil chenille) adds flash, if you want to bother. Also works great in all-black. The flies are surprisingly tough, and I've taken 15 - 20 fish on one, and they are easily repaired in the field with a few spare feathers. Use plenty of head cement or epoxy on all your wrappings. Don't forget a Tyger Wire-type bite tippet or you'll lose some big fish.




Good luck.

 

[PikeFlyGuy]

If you can find shallow bays with dark bottoms, they should be stacked up with pike on sunny days in the early season, right after ice out. These warm quickly, attracting the fish. Usually deerhair Dahlberg-type flies are great at that time.

Just talked to a camp opeator in N. Saskatchewan (Reindeer Lake). The lake is still largely iced in, with only a few bays opening up...at least 3 weeks later than usual! So much for Global warming.

 

[Guest1]

Thanks to all for the information.

Diver Dan, is your fly all rabbit? and how deep do you fish them?

:secret:

No they aren't all rabbit. The small other colored patch is marabou. You don't need to use it if you don't want to. I see them in Cabela's without it. They are not that hard to cast. They almost never wrap the hook as there is a weed gaurd of 30 to 50 lb. mono. I realize Pikeflyguy is attempting to sell his book,but it seems like he is attempting to do it by saying bad things about this fly and in other posts the other two flies that are probably the best Pike flies on the planet. Marabou flies like he is talking about get munched into an unusable mess in short order if they do get Pike to hit them which is why I tie the Reynolds Pike fly like I do. It is bullet proof. As for how deep to fish them You can go as deep as you want. Pike see up very well though and are more than willing to come up for a fly. If you want a recipe I'll e-mail you one. And before Pikeflyguy gets started again, you do not need stinger hooks. Stinger hooks are a monumentaly bad idea.

 

[Guest1]

Usually deerhair Dahlberg-type flies are great at that time.

.... largely iced in, with only a few bays opening up...at least 3 weeks later than usual! So much for Global warming.

Hey! two things I agree with! When I posted the Dahlberg Mega Divers before, you didn't like them then did you?

 

[PikeFlyGuy]

DiverDan and I have an honest disagreement, which is what makes the world go around. He's entitled to his opinions, but I've been doing this at least as long as he, and it's too bad he doesn't feel I'm entitled to mine. That's why they make Chocolate, Vanilla and 39 other flavors.

Obviously, we all have our favorites, and he's entitled to his. I can say that I've used marabou streamers for years and consistantly outfish my buddies who tried the Reynolds Pike Fly, fishing side-by-side...and I'm less tired at the end of the day from not slogging out water-heavy bunny strips. As for durability, the marabous are probably NOt as durable as bunny strip flies, but I have taken UPWARDS OF 20 FISH on one fly w/o retying, if they fly is properly made. That means good tight wrappings and a good coat of head cement after each element is added. On a recent trip to Northern Manitoba I was concerned about possible lost luggage, so I mailed 6 marabou streamers to the lodge in advance, and hand-carried a 10 wt. rod & reel. Sure enough, my bags and all my other tackle and flies arrived 5 days later, but those 6 flies lasted through about 250 fish. I did some on-site repairs and only had 2 working flies left when my stuff finally showed up, but I was still catching fish faster than anyone else at the lodge. If you carry a little thread, cement & a few extra feathers, on the spot repairs are a simple matter, and (in MY opinion) worth the effort for such productive flies.

Re; Stinger hooks, I understand the concern, and I only use them occassionally for musky when I'm getting a lot of close follows but no substantial hits. When I've caught fish with them it's usually the stinger in the jaw. Only occassionally is the fish hooked deeply, and even then with barbless hooks, (despite others' protests) there's little extra damage done. Again, Dan is entitled to his opinion, but don't come crying next time a good musky makes a splashy pass at your flies but only gets the tail. I know others say it doesn't happen, but I've seen it many times.

Now a question to all the experience toothy critter fly-fishers. Have any of you tried circle hooks, especially for pike? It would seem to me they should work because pike usually engulf the fly, and I get many hooked in the throat. I'd rather see that fly in the corner of the mouth. Any comments (Diver Dan's opinion welcome, too.)?

 

[Guest1]

I would need to see a picture of this 40 fish marabou fly. (6 flies/250 fish) I tie a marabou leech for Smallmouth and they don't last 40 fish. I caught 25 or 30 with one and it started looking a bit skinny, and I can stick my thumb in their mouth. It's not how it is tied either. It is because marabou is not very tough material. It gets chopped off and eventually you end up with a fuzzy hook shank. I can chop it off with my own teeth. No marabou fly is going to make it through 40 Bass let alone Pike. Well, they might make it through 40 bass but they will not look good afterwards. I have a funny bunny emerald shiner made of almost entirely white zonker strip, and less than 50 bass have given it some balding problems. You can't tell me that marabou is tougher than rabbit strips. As for you feeling I'm entitled to my opinion, when I posted the Reynold's pike fly you said "avoid rabbit". When I showed the Pike Muppet you said it "needed a trailer hook". You have disagreed with everything I have said followed by "buy my book." You have a right to your opinions and so do I. No matter how wrong yours are.

 

[PikeFlyGuy]

This blog shouldn't become a forum for an arguement between to posters, but I can't let DiverDan's comments pass unanswered.

Is he calling me a liar? Why would I do that? I haven't said one nasty thing about Dan, yet he keeps insulting me. I've found people who keep insisting how superior they...and their ideas...are have other issues. Anyhow, lets clear up some misconstrued innuendo.

Yes, the 6 flies lasted though about 250 pike. Many fish were small, but they often chew the fly worse than larger fish, who usually inhale it, keeping it away from teeth. However, as I mentioned, they needed repair - retying marabou stems broken at the head, and cannibalizing one fly to repair another. I said I was down to 2 flies after 4 days, and they were in a pretty sorry state. The mylar tube bodies had long since disappeared. However, one of the great things about marabou is, even when pretty well chewed down, pike still love it. Even a fly with only 1 feather and a touch of red and some flashabou still take fish better than most.

I'm not telling DiverDan to use the fly. If he's too stubborn to try, it's his loss, not mine. If the rest of you are open-minded enough to try marabou streamers, you won't be disappointed. Experiment if you're flyfishing with a buddy: one use marabou and the other bunny strips. Then make up your own mind.

As an aside, as usual, Dan got me wrong again. I NEVER said I didn't like deerhair divers. I use the all the time, especially when fish are in shallow water or pickerel grass. My fovorite colors for the divers are chartruse, red/white, red/yellow & black.

And as I said in an earlier post, despite his loudly-voiced superior attitude, I've been doing this at least as long as he (I'm 73 and have been flyfishing for over 60 years), have held 2 IGFA tippet class records for pike, along with 8 or 10 others, and can confidently point to my own record and experience to back my opinions. After all, they ARE opinions, based on my experience. Everyone else, including Dan, are entitled to their, as well. I'm always willing to try what another experienced angler recommends, and then make up my own mind.

Thanks to the other bloggers who have written me, and I hope this is the end of public bickering.

One last question for DiverDan. Have you experimented with Circle hooks for pike & musky? Living on Lake of the Woods, you can afford some lost fish if they don't work because you have a whole summer of "tomorrows" to catch another fish. Also I wonder how they work on deerhair bugs for smallies. Like me (surprise), I know you're interested in anything that does less damage to fish to be released alive (I've been doing it for 30 years), so it is worth the effort. Any comments?

 

[Guest1]

I'm not telling DiverDan to use the fly. If he's too stubborn to try, it's his loss, not mine.

I can't try a fly you don't post. I have used them with dead smelt in the ice out. They work fine. I have not used them with flies. The main "issue" I have is you contradict, then do a four engine run on selling the book. e.g. I say reynolds pike flies are the best pike fly on the planet, you say avoid rabbit (like the reynold's pike fly), buy my book. I fish for a lot of differant species. I have seen this kind of thing before. Some guy who fishes a couple of times a year, but writes well gets a book or article published and while the writing may be fine the information is lacking or wrong. I'm not saying that your book is an example, but some of what you have said leads me to believe it may be. You have taken a contraditory stance on a lot of things followed by a "buy my book" so the feeling of superiority and issues may not be mine.

 

[Guest1]

Barry Reynold's, the creator of the Reynold's pike fly, holds the IGFA 12 lb. tippet Pike record at 33 lbs. 8 oz. I have 14 records myself. His record still stands. I doubt it will be broken any time soon.

 

[PikeFlyGuy]

Actually, DiverDan and I agree on many things, like rod selection and conservation. Just because I disagree about what fly to use doesn't make me - or him - wrong. I've found rabbit strip streamers retain water and become more tiresome to cast after a full day on the lake. I also find the tail tends to tangle around the hook bend, although if tied with a weedguard, it happens much less often. I know people who love them, but I think I do as well or better with the Marabou, with less hassle. It's a personal choice. After all, I'm making recommendadtions, based on experience. It's not Law, forbiding the use of rabbit.

I've also experimented with w/streamers made from Puglisi synthetic fibers. Great action in the water, comprable to marabou, and very easy to cast...even very big flies...as they quickly shed water. However, I've lost several big fish after a minute or 2, and I believe the problem is their small teeth on the tongue and roof of the mouth tangle in the kinky fibers, making it difficult to set the hook. They hang on for a little, then shake the head and out comes the fly, so I use the fibers very sparingly, mostly on my flashabou fly.

Here is the recipe for my Marabou Streamer, for those interested:

Hook: 1/0 to 3/0. I prefer a saltwater 3X or 4X long hook, like the Mustad 34011. These may need to be sharpened before use, but do it after tying. It's easier on your fingers!
Thread: Kevlar or 200 denier GSP (gel-spun polyethylene) in white or black
Weed-guard: #2 (27 pound test) single strand stainless steel leader wire, or equivalent. Some use a loop of heavy mono, like on bass flies, but I prefer wire.
Body: (optional) Silver braided mylar tubing, size Large.
Under Wing: 2 full, long red marabou feathers, tied back-to-back, so they flare outward.
Over Wing: 2 full, long marabou feathers (white, yellow, chartreuse or black), tied above and over the under wings, back-to-back, flared outward.
Wing Topping: 10 - 12 strands of Flashabou (Pearl, gold or black, depending on over-wing color), to extend 2" - 3" beyond the wings, plus 6 - 8 strands of Crystal Flash the length of the feathers, all tied on top.
Eyes: Large, flat-end tungsten barbells, tied under the hook, with stick-on pupils added.
Head: Build up with thread, especially around the eyes and sealed with head cement or clear Liquid Nails nail polish.
Tying Note: You can eliminate the weed guard, by tying this fly, hook up, with the point between the wings. It is almost as weedless as with the weed-guard. There were Keel-Hooks designed just for this, but I don't know if they are any longer available. I'm not convinced Keel Hooks are as effective at hooking fish, because of their design, and std. hook, tied pt. up, provide a nice weedless fly without the use of a wire weedguard.

Anyone interested in the Flasabou pattern can write me directly for the recipe. I don't want to tie up the blog w/too many patterns

I agree with Dan about Barry's record. He broke mine on 12# test by 6 pounds. I have had a pike at least that large follow my R/W marabou to the boat on Reindeer Lake, Sask, however.

 

[Guest1]

So what you are saying is Barry Reynolds beat your record with this "hated" fly. Could this be the cause of your "issues"? You admit you have "disagreed" so it has not just been all me as you previously stated. Just for the record, there is a fly tying section here just for clogging the place up with recipes. How about posting a picture of this fly that the pike at "least as big" as Barry's didn't seem to like.

 

[rmooney]

i caught my first northern on a fly rod! it bit a "mega bugger". its a size two all black woolly bugger with root beer krystal flash in the tail and running up the body. it also has a tungsten bead head. i was using one of the orvis abrasion resistant bass/pike leaders. it was so much fun! its on the small side i know, but it was a blast pulling in on my five weight!