New to fly fishing, have questions

[hillbilly rick]

Howdy,
I've been fishing for about 45yrs but just started fly fishing.
The area where I live has a few trout streams within 100 miles from home, but, I live on a beautiful river with crystal clear water and good smallmouth and fair largemouth bass.
The set up I'm using is a TCO Lefty Kreh signature series 9' long 7w 2piece rod. The reel is an old Shakespeer that my Great Uncle used last in 1947,I still have the news paper it is wrapped in. The line is scientific anglers L 7 F. At fist I used a mono 4lb test leader and had problems then went with a tapered leader with a tippet and the problems went away.
Now my problem is buying flies down here.I don't know anything about sizes or if a fly is floating or sinking except for poppers. I do have small poppers that I caught 11 keeper 'gills on my first time out. Looking in catalogs I have no idea how big a #6 or #12 is. What material makes the best poppers,hair, wood or foam? Maybe I should tie my own:shocking:. Where to start? But it should be a good way to learn what's what
Thanks in advance for any suggestions
Rick

 

[okuma]

Big Y Fly has flies cheap, for bass included. My flies for smallies are all tied on size 4 hooks. Sliders,poppers, clousers, zonkers, dragon flies, crayfish, all ork well. Don't rule out that smallies like gawdy colors also.

 

[peregrines]

Hey Hillbilly Rick welcome to the forum.

Sounds like you have a great outfit-- that reel must have a lot of history, and it's great you're using it. At some point, especially if the fly line is old and the coating is cracked, you may want to upgrade to a 7 weight, "weight forward" taper floating fly line (designated "WF 7 F"). The "L" designation on your line stands for "Level") it should cast a bit easier for you. But there's no need to change now if your fly line is working fine and you're catching fish (and it sounds like you are).

Fly tying can be a whole 'nuther addiction in itself-- It's a lot of fun although tying probably is not going to save you any money most people get carried away with all kinds of materials to tie lots of different patterns. But the good news is that, after a little practice, you can tie some pretty simple but effective patterns.

As far as fly sizes go, size 10 or 12 would be a good size range for bluegill-- any smaller and they'll swallow the flies, any larger and they might have problems getting it into their mouth. Small poppers or foam spiders with rubber legs that size should work great for them.

For smallmouth, flies that are a bit meatier, around size 4 and 6, would be good choices, and should be easy to throw with your rod.

You might want a couple flies that cover different layers of the water column and that imitate a wide variety of food items. These patterns are good for largemouth too and are widely available. I'm sure you'll get a lot of pattern recommendations but picking a couple of these would be a good start:

For top water:

-foam popper size 4 or 6 (Hard or soft foam poppers work great and usually are less expensive to buy and easier to tie than deer hair bass bugs)

-Foam Grasshopper pattern size 8 (a good topwater summer pattern)

For mid water:

Any White bucktail, marabou or feather wing streamer size 6 (to imitate baitfish)

Black Marabou Muddler size 6 (a good pattern for high and off colored water)

For deeper water and to bounce off the bottom:

Chartreuse Clouser size 6 ( a classic smallie pattern)

Crayfish imitation size 6 (or brown over orange clouser or "Foxee Clouser" size 6) especially if you're fishing streams

Bead Head Woolly Buggers size 6 Black, olive and brown are all good color choices

 

[MoscaPescador]

I've been fishing for about 45yrs but just started fly fishing.

Welcome to the forum, Rick.

The area where I live has a few trout streams within 100 miles from home, but, I live on a beautiful river with crystal clear water and good smallmouth and fair largemouth bass.

Fishing for trout is fun, but there are days that I would rather fish for bass especially if they are in moving water.

The set up I'm using is a TCO Lefty Kreh signature series 9' long 7w 2piece rod. The reel is an old Shakespeer that my Great Uncle used last in 1947,I still have the news paper it is wrapped in. The line is scientific anglers L 7 F. At fist I used a mono 4lb test leader and had problems then went with a tapered leader with a tippet and the problems went away.

If you start throwing larger bass flies, you may want to ditch that level line. A shorter head weight forward line will help you throw larger flies easier. You may want to consider using an eight weight line if you don't need to make long casts.

Now my problem is buying flies down here...

I think Peregrine covered the fly thing well for you.

Have fun.

Dennis

 

[hillbilly rick]

Thank you all,
I kind of figgered the smaller the number the bigger the fly but wasn't positive. I'll save these recommendations.
Unfortunately, my Aunt passed before I got to get the history on the reel but I also have the bamboo rod he used but it hangs on the wall. The line is new and I knew level line wasn't what I really wanted but was all I could find down here. I do plan to change to a WF. The clear water dictates long casts. Using UL spinning gear, dull greens seem to work best most of the time for bass. Our crawdads are green.
I'll check out big y flies, I searched some of the fly tying threads but all looked geared for folks that had some knowledge of what they're looking for.
Thanks again
Rick

 

[possumpoint]

If you ever do really become interested in the fly tying addiction, there is an INTERNET forum dedicated to assist you. They have a beginners section where a number of members will answer your questions and no question is dumb. The forum name is flytyingforum.com.

Their data base of flies, indexed to the species being fished for, is most helpful. Many of those flies have instructions on how to tie and some have videos attached.

Edit: Corrected name of flytyingforum.com

 

[famill00]

If you need a new fly line, Allen Fly Fishing has lines that are very inexpensive, yet get great reviews from member here.

-Forrest

 

[HuronRiverDan]

Rick, Welcome to the Forum... Sounds like you have a nice spot for Smallies. The flies the guys listed are great; my choices would also include the foam poppers and some size 6 white streamers. If you're seeing fish feeding on top and the poppers won't work; try some large beetle patterns...

Dan

 

[peregrines]

Rick

If you're really interested in fly tying you should also check out some of the posts in the fly tying section of this forum, and in the fly tying FAQ section where there are some posts on materials and tools. And there are a ton of excellent resources out there on the internet including youtube videos and step by steps for tying many patterns.

Here's a recent post from a new member to the forum "rvc" (also named Rick) from central florida that is getting into tying and asked about some simple bass patterns:

http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/f...34-patterns-new-central-florida-fly-tier.html

Although you can get a fly tying kit with vise, tools and materials for around $50-60, it's generally a better bet (especially if it's something you think you'll stick with) to spend a little more on a decent vise $60-150, some basic tools $30-50 and the materials (hooks, hair feathers etc) for 2-3 basic patterns at a time (you'll have plenty of stuff left over build up an inventory of basic materials). That way you'll avoid poorly machined imported with soft jaws that tend not to hold hooks very well, tools that fall apart and semi random low quality materials. And since the biggest slice of the small fly tying market is oriented towards trout, most kits don't tend to have much in the way of useful stuff if you're chasing bass.

If you have a local fly shop they can help get you set up with a decent vise and basic tools and can suggest some easy but effective patterns and help select appropriate materials. Another advantage of shops is that many have tying classes or informal "tie and lie" get togethers. There are also many fly fishing organizations like local clubs affiliated with the Federation of Fly Fishers that have tying and casting classes, group trips to local waters and informative meetings. You cna do a search here to see if there is one near you: Locate a Club

And feel free to ask questions here on the forum-- lots of helpful folks that can help get you going, and there is a ton of info that might be worth browsing in the fly tying forums here.

 

[hillbilly rick]

HuronRiverDan,
You are correct sir. Where we live is one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen. We often see Bald eagles while fishing, the water is crystal clear and the hills are covered with trees. All this does create some distraction and fish are lost due to lack of attention. I've never heard of a beetle pattern but after the cicada hatch this year, I think that would work very well. If there is a white streamer with black on top and red by the gills it would match our minnows.
Familloo, Thanks I'll bookmark that.
possumpoint, Thanks, I'll BM that too. I've asked so many dumb questions in my life I'm not scared anymore

---------- Post added at 12:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 PM ----------

Peregrines,
I see there is a wealth of info here and I'm certainly in the right place.
Unfortunately, there is nothing local here. The big settlement,15,00 people, is 120mi round trip. This is where we do our shopping and there is a sporting goods store there I'll check there first. Otherwise it's a 270 mi round trip to St.Louis to Cabela's and Bass pro, but I may have to go there anyway.
Thanks again
Rick
The vids were good, they make it look sooo easy. Goes to show, ask and ye shall receive.

 

[Ard]

Hi Rick,

I'll just say welcome to the forum, it looks like the fellas are helping you out. Good to have you on the forum board,

Ard

 

[peregrines]

If there is a white streamer with black on top and red by the gills it would match our minnows.

Rick that's one of the neat things about tying-- you can whip stuff up to "match the hatch" - or in this case your local minnows, and have a alot of options depending on how you want to fish it.

For example, here's a common minnow found in many eastern streams, the Black Nosed Dace (if the pictures don't come up click on the blue box with the question mark)

And here's a classic bucktail, called, oddly enough, the Black Nosed Dace tied to imitate it:
Print Black Nosed Dace

If you wanted to bump bottom with it, you could tie something like this black over white Clouser, also with bucktail

http://www.leftyray.com/images/Clouser, black white.JPG

Or if you wanted something that suspended and breathed as you twitched it in slow water, you could tie something like a simple marabou wing streamer witha white marabou wing and topping of peacock herl 9 to imitate the dark back of a baitfish):

All of these patterns imitate a typical long thin minnow profile pretty well. There are other patterns like a Lefty's Deceiver or Zonkers that are better at imitating baitfish like shad with more of a tear drop profile.

Gizzard shad

Deceiver

Zonker

With just a little bit of practice, none of these are too difficult to tie, and of course you could tie them in whatever colors and sizes you want.

 

[hillbilly rick]

Ard, thanks for the welcome. I'm glad i'm here.
Mark thanks again for the links, I had no idea this much info was on the net. One vid showed the vise turning 360deg. many times to tie a fly, do all tying vices do this?
I made my own wooden lures for a few years and it took many hours to do just one. I think I might be able to tie flies a little faster after some practice.
Thanks again
Rick

 

[peregrines]

Ard, thanks for the welcome. I'm glad i'm here.
Mark thanks again for the links, I had no idea this much info was on the net. One vid showed the vise turning 360deg. many times to tie a fly, do all tying vices do this?
I made my own wooden lures for a few years and it took many hours to do just one. I think I might be able to tie flies a little faster after some practice.
Thanks again
Rick

Rick, you're very welcome. I thought including a couple different vids and step by steps would give you a good taste for what's out there. As you begin tying you'll learn different techniques as you learn new patterns, and pretty soon you'll be combining them to whip together your own creations.

Vises for fly tying come in a bunch of different designs, and it would be a great idea to actually try a few before you purchase one if you can. There are great vises in virtually every type of design, so a lot of it comes down to personal choice.

The most important quality is how securely it will hold the hooks in the sizes you plan to tie. Inexpensive imported vises tend to have problems with poorly machined parts and/or soft metal jaws.

Here's a couple different designs

Pedestal or c- clamp - whether it attaches to the table (c- clamp) or sits on top of a table. This is a matter of personal preference. A c-clamp can scar good furniture, and may not easily attach to different table tops depending on their design and width. But they are usually pretty sturdy, and are lighter to pack for travel. A pedestal base can be convenient and , with some felt on the bottom, less likely to scratch up a good table top. It should be heavy and large enough that the vise won't be tippy if you are tying large flies for bass with a lot of thread torque.

Vises use a variety of designs to hold the hooks. Here's a good link that explains different hook holding designs and gives pics of many different styles of vises:
Get a Grip | MidCurrent

The jaw angle can be fixed, usually at a 30 degree angle which is comfortable for most fly tying, or adjustible through a wide arc up and down, which can be helpful for tying some types of flies. Here's a pic of a Griffin 2 vise with an adjustible jaw angle, but the jaws do not rotate.

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And here's a link to a thread showing a Regal Medallion vise with the jaws adjusted from a "normal" 30 degree angle to pointing straight up to make it easier to tie on a small hook. This can be a helpful feature for tying inverted flies that ride upside down (with hook point up) like clousers.
http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/f.../112832-sale-regal-medallion-series-vise.html

Whether or not the jaw rotates, and if it does rotate, whether the jaw rotates the hook shank in a constant plane called a "true rotary" vise, or not. The tyer in the video clip used a "true rotary" vise in the video clip. because the hook shank rotates on it's own axis, you can spin the vise to wind on materials. Here's an example of a Peak true rotary vise. Note that the jaws are set at on a horizontal stem at a fixed angle, but the stem rotates within that gold sleeve. (That L shaped arm thing attached to the stem of the vise is called "bobbin cradle" and is designed to hold the thread bobbin while you spin the vise, and they're usually included with true rotary vises):

On other types of rotary vises, called "360 rotary" you can flip the jaws so the hook is upside down without taking it from the vise, and you can view the fly from all sides, but the hook shank does not revolve around it's own axis. This is called a "360 rotary" vise. This HMH SX is an example of a 360 rotary vise. The jaws are held in a sleeve set in the vertical stem at a fixed angle. But the jaws can rotate within the sleeve and you can view the fly from all sides:

Having a rotary feature, whether "true rotary" or "360 rotary" can be helpful, but there are many excellent high quality bullet proof vises out there to choose from. And many people that have "true rotary" vises tie mostly in the conventional way without spinning the vise to put on materials.

To help visualize the difference between a "true rotary" and a "360 rotary" vise, imagine a dart board, with 2 darts. One dart sticking out of the center of the bulls eye, and the other dart near the bottom edge of the dart board at the six o'clock position.

If you rotated the dart board so that the dart at the 6 o'clock position was now on top at 12 o'clock, the dart in the center of the bullseye would have rotated on its own axis and be essentially in the same position (like the hook shank in a true rotary vise). The 2nd dart would have also been rotated, but in a wide arc and be well off center from it's original position (as the hook shank in a "360 vise") .

Having a rotary feature, whether "true rotary" or "360 rotary" can be helpful, but there are many excellent high quality bullet proof vises out there to choose from. And many people that have "true rotary" vises tie mostly in the conventional way without spinning the vise to put on materials.

So there are a wide range of bells and whistles out there to confuse and confound. Bottom line is you want a vise that holds hooks securely. Everything else should be a very distant consideration.

Hope this helps-- you might also want to look through some of the older threads in the fly tying forum to read the replies from other folks about different vises.

 

[hillbilly rick]

Thanks Mark,
I do not need the whistles and bells. I do want one that will hold securely and handle large bass flies. I believe I'll go with a clamp type. but probably won't do anything until winter when the days are shorter and colder.
Rick