Carp flies and tactics

[nick k]

Hey all. I know we have the "Carpin" thread going but this is geared towards anyone starting out on carp such as myself. I wasn't aware until recently that I live near some really great carp waters. I have never targeted carp before but am now looking forward to trying my hand at it. I was wondering if anyone could give me the basics of what I'll need, such as:

• Rod weight
• Leader/tippet size
• Must-have flies
• Extra gear
• Strategies to hooking up
• How to play the carp once you're hooked

Really any advice would be great. Thanks in advance.

 

[brookfieldangler]

You are starting on a slippery slope...you have been warned :secret:

Rod size - depends on your average fish. If you are going up against 5lb fish with the occasional 10lb'er....a 6wt. 10lb average with the occasional upper teen fish...a 7 would work. Anything above that an 8 is the way to go. The biggest reason for the heavier rod is so you have enough backbone to turn that fish around - if you don't, he will just keep going...and going...and going

Leader/tippet - I typically go with 6 to 7 feet of level leader (6 to 12lb test)

Must have flies - backstabber, carp carrot (soft hackle), egg pattern, a few natural nymphs, and some top water stuff for the occasional opportunity when they are surface feeding (caddis, mayfly, stimmies, etc...)

Extra gear - a net is handy as is a scale. Dont forget sun protection. The best carp fishing is during the brightest and hottest weather.

Strategies for hooking up - it takes practice but 99% of my carp fishing is all visual. The more you do it, the more you will recognize a take.

Once your hooked - just hang on. For the most part, the fish is in control or your leader (or rod) will be snapping. Put enough pressure to slow them down and they will usually cooperate. After the first run, they are typically a bulldogish fight with a lot of give and take.

 

[nick k]

Great advice, thanks for taking the time to explain it all. I'll have to whip up some of those patterns.

 

[fichy]

Nick, welcome to the addiction. I generally use a 6 wt with a reel with a good drag. I chase them in clear water for the most part, so I use a 12' with the last 3-4' being 3x fluorocarbon. You can go shorter in less clear conditions. Nymphs, wooly buggers (carp love crayfish if they're present in your waters) and egg/sucker spawn flies will all work.I would also never be without carp worms/San Juan worms with a beadhead or small beadchain in red, pink and chartreuse. I generally tie on 2x strong/heavy nymph hooks- they will straighten light trout fly hooks. Look for fish feeding, rather than cruising. Polarized sunglasses are a great help. You can spot fish tailing, or in murky water look for bubble trails (carp rooting in the sediment releasing methane bubbles) or discoloration from the surrounding water called "muds". If you can determine the direction or orientation of the carp, cast slightly ahead and to the side . I wait maybe 5 to 10 seconds and give the fly a slight twitch if I see or feel no response. Keep your line taught as carp are very quick at rejecting flies. If you can see them tilt up on your fly, strike! If you're fishing blind, strike at the first sign of tension. Flies with beadchain that ride hook-up are excellent, as they snag much less. Small Clousers can be effective, too- carp will eat minnows. One of the largest carp I've ever seen was busting a school of yellow perch! I've caught several over 20 lbs. using clousers in the 3-4 inch range. Not the norm, though. Carp are not overly fast swimmers and they'll roll rather than jump. Keep pressure on them, change directions of pull to confuse them, keep your rod tip down and let them tire themselves out running against the drag and fighting the rod butt. A large net is handy, though you can carefully beach them. Don't use a lipping device like a boga-grip- it'll do damage. There's many different scenarios and foods carp love - they truly are omnivorous- I could write pages and pages of what's worked at times. Get started and you'll learn a ton as you go. One more tip- carp are very cautious and have many defense mechanisms. They release pheromones when they get frightened to warn other carp out of the area. Lots of times, they are the apex predator in a body of water and will move off slowly when they've figured out you're there. They will NOT feed and you'll have to move on or wait them out. Move slowly and cautiously. It's as much hunting as fishing. An absolute blast. I fish north of Beantown in the salt quite a bit. I've seen some monsters in the Merrimack and I've heard the same for the Charles. I'm concentrating on stripers, so I've only caught a few near the coast.

 

[brookfieldangler]

Those pheromones are actually not released simply because the fish is spooked. In other words, if you spook a fish and he bolts, the pheromones most likely have NOT been released.

They are called Alarm Substance Cells (ASC) and actually more of a mechanical release. If you grab a carp or step on one, then those ASCs would be released because you would be physically rupturing those cells. To sum that up, those cells are only released when physically ruptured.

With that knowledge, if you spook a fish from the area, sit tight, the fish will be back.

 

[fichy]

Thanks for the correction. I had read that somewhere, and it seems to be incorrect. My observations from 50 years of carp fishing, 25 with a fly rod may have a little validity, but maybe not. I've watched countless times one carp move numbers of others off a flat when they are spooked. Probably more from vibration and water displacement. In my experience, carp spooked in clear water will be hesitant to return to an area to feed for 15-30 minutes. I usually move on. That's a generality , and carp behavior varies as much within a species as I've ever seen. Having no scientific background, it's just speculation on my part.

 

[brookfieldangler]

Also having no scientific background, my info comes from Dr. Nicholas Gidmark, scientific adviser for the US Carp Pro Magazine.

It is possible that a spooked fish could release it though due to physical contact with an inanimate object like a rock or log, perhaps even another fish.

The point is that there has to be some physical contact in order for those pheromones to be released.

 

[nick k]

All great information here. Very interesting behavior out of carp. It is possible that carp also have "follow the leader" behavior, as many animals do, and take physical cues from spooked fish, as well as biological ones. Either way, I will try my hardest to be ninja-like when going after carp.

 

[brookfieldangler]

They definitely can have that behavior from my experience.

If one fish gets spooked, their instant and explosive response likely spooks the other fish and a chain reaction ensues.

I have also seen, on many occasions, where a hooked fish has a straggler or two that seem to follow the fish wherever it goes. I laugh every time I see that.

 

[nick k]

I have also seen, on many occasions, where a hooked fish has a straggler or two that seem to follow the fish wherever it goes. I laugh every time I see that.

I have also seen this behavior with many other species. It normally seems to be a case of relatives or mates to me, as the followers are often much different in size or apparent gender. Sometimes as well, for specific species, the followers are looking to take a bite out of the hooked fish.

 

[bigjim5589]

I'm not an avid carp chaser, but have fished quite a bit for them in the past. My experience has been much like what fichy posted. I have no clue about the pheromones, but they do seem to have better memories than other fish. There is a place I used to fish for them, backwater areas left flooded near a river. There would be pods of carp in these flooded places & if I spooked them with my approach, they would usually avoid the general area where I was. Several times, I wore camo & crawled to the water, even sitting motionless for long periods watching them before I even attempted fishing. They would move away & if they returned, would make a wide detour around my area, even after 30 minutes or longer. I've had bass move back into places after I had spooked them & would still strike at flies or lures, but not these carp. A few times I was able to get a hook-up, but it appeared not with any that I had previously spooked, but with those that wandered near me from other areas. I'm not saying a spooked carp cannot be caught, just that in these backwaters, which were quite shallow, they seemed to be very cautious, and seemed to remember being spooked. Also speculation on my part. Those times that I have had some success with them, was also with those actively feeding. I don't ever recall having any success with cruising carp, although I have read that others have.

 

[john montana]

Carp are a great fly rod target, and everyone has posted some excellent information in this thread. Stick with this stuff and you'll be good to go man. I would add my three basic rules of carping:

1) Know your forage. Carp can and do eat anything. There is no one magic fly that will work for all carp, but there is likely a magic fly that will work for your carp. Learn the forage and you will be good to go.

2) Don't cast until you can see the fish's head. Detecting the take in MOST waters is the tricky part (again, this comes down to forage. Our here, I am lucky to get a fish to move 6 inches for a fly...in Lake MI I've seen them move 15 feet to SLAM a 2 inch long sculpin pattern). In general, this is a sight fishing game as Nick mentioned, so you better be able to see the head in order to see the take. I can count the number of carp I've "felt" on one hand out of my home waters (this goes up when I fish waters with different forage and more aggressive fish. So far I've caught carp in 8 states). I would rather spook a fish attempting a stalk, then cast when I can't see their head and miss the take.

3) You gotta make 'em move. Carp are the most efficient feeders in fresh water and can suck a fly in from quite a distance away with little "tell." So my rule...make 'em move. I basically try to create a situation with my presentation where I am forcing the fish to turn its head to the side in order to eat. Then I set the hook when I see the head turn.

I am sure a lot of people will have a lot better advice, but those are my three rules. When I stick with those, I do ok...but don't for a second assume carp are easy. They can be predators, they can be grazers. They can key on a specific item, or they can be in the mood to eat just about anything. Combine this vastness in HOW they can feed with the fact that they have some of the best senses in the fishing world (let's not get started on their sense of smell or taste) and you have an extremely challenging fish. Then again, sometimes they are easy! Hah...you gotta love 'em.

For the scientific stuff that Nick mentioned, check out this podcast. Full disclaimer, I'm on the carp pro prostaff...mods, please delete if the link to the podcast is innappropriate.

Episode IV: CarpPro Flycast

Feel free to shoot me a message here or on facebook if you have any specific questions. And like Nick said...watch out! This is a slippery slope! I used to be a respectable angler!

 

[nick k]

Great info John. Thanks to everyone here for taking the time to write some pretty lengthy posts. Can't wait to get out there and catch my first carp.

 

[shimloom]

I would also add a Thanks to you guys who do this. I have wanted to try Carp on the fly but haven't as yet. Got an invit from a guy who works at a large fly shop in So. Calif. last sunday to go Carp fishing in the LA River of all places! Hey it is a slippery slope when guys who know the fly biz are willing to do the LA River!

Craig

 

[brookfieldangler]

I would also add a Thanks to you guys who do this. I have wanted to try Carp on the fly but haven't as yet. Got an invit from a guy who works at a large fly shop in So. Calif. last sunday to go Carp fishing in the LA River of all places! Hey it is a slippery slope when guys who know the fly biz are willing to do the LA River!

Craig

I actually spent some time checking out the LA river my last trip out there. There are definitely some fantastic fish in there when you can find them and a place to access it.

I parked in one place near a dog park and when I got back to my car, I was in there browsing my GPS looking for more possible access points when another car parked in front of me after driving past more than once.

I thought nothing of it until the guy got out and stood between the front of my car and his car when it dawned on me....

He too was looking to drown a worm. We were just on different pages when it came to the type of worm.



Just something to look out for when you are scoping out the LA river if you aren't in to that sorta thing

 

[john montana]

I forgot to add this one:

4) To catch more carp, cast at less carp. Not every carp is going to eat, so ignore sunning fish and focus on tailing fish or slow cruisers (my personal favorite target). Unlike a lot of freshwater fish, "talking" a carp into eating is tough!

 

[itchmesir]

Carp are a great fly rod target, and everyone has posted some excellent information in this thread. Stick with this stuff and you'll be good to go man. I would add my three basic rules of carping:

1) Know your forage. Carp can and do eat anything. There is no one magic fly that will work for all carp, but there is likely a magic fly that will work for your carp. Learn the forage and you will be good to go.

This one is a real outside the box situation too... some will only think inside the box of bait fish and bugs but from listening to Brad Befus speak before... He had mentioned how even flies that have been tied to mimic popcorn and bread for lakes that often attract duck feeders... As carp sometimes are likely to key in on these items because they are common "forage"... He even made mention of a cigarette butt fly he made once to catch carp in urban setting lakes...

 

[bugslinger]

Fantastic advise, now someone come over here and help me put the "ain't skeert" t-shirts on these carp that I fish for.

 

[stl_geoff]

They are definitly follow the leader in my little creek/stormdrain. its irritating. But they usually will calm down pretty quickly if I dont move.

I like my 8wt for them, but then again I fish in areas where 10lbs+ is a very common and real possiblility of being caught.

 

[dpreller]

ive definetley decided this is the ear for me to give the carp a solid go. with gas getting higher every day i have a small river close to home with lots of 3-8 or maybe 10 pound carp. im gonna take the six weight and try to get after them this year. best part is nobody else fishes for them. ill be keeping an eye on this thread.