Length rod

[rockdog23]

I am going to be floating several smaller rivers this summer for muskies, I am looking at getting a new fly rod and was wondering what thoughts are on a rod length. Would a shorter rod work(Echo84 type) or should I stick with a
9', I will be going with a 10 weight and will be throwing mostly big streamers with the hope of some big poppers if I can get a topwater bite going.
Thanks,

 

[raindogt]

Hey rockdog, Firstly, Welcome!

I'm not sure what a small river is to you, so it is hard to recommend something on that criteria alone. I'd say look further than just a handful of floats. Get a rod that will be useful in the future, but fit the bill for these trips as well. even if that means undergunning on the rod a little. Also, get the rod early and use it. Slinging a 10 wt. all day is no easy thing. You can't pick it up on Fri., go on your float Saturday and expect to last very long.....

 

[Guest1]

Welcome to the forum. By float I assume you mean tube or pontoon. In the event I guessed right, you don't want short.

Second, even if you are not going in a tube, and are doing it in more of a drift boat type situation, many times Musky are setting in shallow water and you don't want to be running over the top of them. Getting a decent distance will allow you to cover more water in a more efficient manner.That kind of rules out shorter as well.

I don't see the need to go longer than 9 foot, but I would not want to go shorter either. My rod of choice would be a 9' 10 wt.

 

[bugslinger]

Welcome to the forum, Dan and I agree many times on many things, just not on this one. Here's my two cents; The longer the rod ,the more leverage you have to cast,fight fish and roll cast back to the spot where the fish missed your fly or you were sleeping. A longer rod is always easier to cast than a shorter one of equal quality and speed. It takes less energy to do so,and that means you can fish longer. Musky are elusive ambush predators that take alot of casting to catch. My advice is to err on the long side, 10 ft. is not a long rod. If I were after Musky the Spey would be my rod of choice as close to the water you are, in a float tube,pontoon etc.


Charlie

 

[ditz]

I have found that my 6' 5wt is much less stressful to cast over a long day than my 8 1/2' 5wt. If I have an open casting area and I am intending to cast 50 to 60' all day I would probable pic the longer rod. If there is a lot of overhead tree conapy I would try to make a little shorter casts and choose a shorter rod. I have found it to be tuff fishing with my fly in the trees. I really like my short rods on the creeks but all my salty rods are 9'. The right tool for job.

I have never done a search but I bet a 8' 10wt is quite scarce other than custom built.

 

[nick k]

I float tube A LOT in the summer on ponds/lakes/rivers for largemouth. I use a 9'0'' 6wt and I have never had any problem with its length.

 

[Rip Tide]

The longer the rod ,the more leverage you have to cast,fight fish and roll cast back to the spot where the fish missed your fly or you were sleeping. A longer rod is always easier to cast than a shorter one of equal quality and speed. It takes less energy to do so,and that means you can fish longer.

Not only do you not have more leverage with the end of your "lever" being further away from the "fulcrum", but air resistance on a longer rod is greater meaning you expend more energy rather than less

 

[nick k]

Not only do you not have more leverage with the end of your "lever" being further away from the "fulcrum", but air resistance on a longer rod is greater meaning you expend more energy rather than less

True. As proved by the EXTREMELY thorough thread a few days ago. Longer rods have LESS leveraging power against fish.

Not saying don't go with one, like I said, I use a 9'0'' when I tube and have never had a second thought about it, but that is just not a true statement.

 

[bugslinger]

Not only do you not have more leverage with the end of your "lever" being further away from the "fulcrum", but air resistance on a longer rod is greater meaning you expend more energy rather than less

I gave you a like becuase I think you were sincere, midguided but none the less sincere. On a two handed rod a.k.a. the Spey the fulcrum is the distance between top and bottom hand usualy an inch or so in front of the reel . The rod is the lever and the line/leader/fly is the weight. This is a general balance point all depending on rod leangth,cast,and grip location,grip length, and reel weight. The longer rod will always generate more wind resistancce because their is more surface area. Instead of going on with a long winded answer, use this test. Take a 8 ft bar and lift a 100 lb weight 1 ft. Take the same weight an lift distance and use a 14 ft bar. The longer bar will use less energy than the shorter, the same way the Spey will throw farther with less energy all day and all night.


Charlie

 

[chuck s]

I am going to be floating several smaller rivers this summer for muskies, I am looking at getting a new fly rod and was wondering what thoughts are on a rod length. Would a shorter rod work(Echo84 type) or should I stick with a
9', I will be going with a 10 weight and will be throwing mostly big streamers with the hope of some big poppers if I can get a topwater bite going.
Thanks,

The best advice I could give you is to find a well stocked fly shop as I did and then try a given rod in various lengths. :icon_idea The test I did with the old RPLX series was with three rods, all 8 weights, and one in a 8ft 9 inch length, one in 9 ft and one in 9ft6 inch length. The shortest one was a delight, the 9 ft rod, my usual choice of rod length under 8 weight, was a tad bit to swing and the 9'6" was a killer. Given a ten I'd always go for a rod in that 8 ft to 8'6" range if available for starts. However that's my comfort level not yours so go try before you buy.

As far as long or short when sitting in a float tube over sitting or standing on a boat, I've found that it's nothing more than a simple adjustment of backcast height/angle and has little to do with rod length. :shades: Longer rods give more reach and reach is necessary when mending, dapping, high sticking, etc and a longer rod is great as long as it's not too stiff, or heavy, as then the lever you are working with is excessive for most folks.

 

[nick k]

I gave you a like becuase I think you were sincere, midguided but none the less sincere. On a two handed rod a.k.a. the Spey the fulcrum is the distance between top and bottom hand usualy an inch or so in front of the reel . The rod is the lever and the line/leader/fly is the weight. This is a general balance point all depending on rod leangth,cast,and grip location,grip length, and reel weight. The longer rod will always generate more wind resistancce because their is more surface area. Instead of going on with a long winded answer, use this test. Take a 8 ft bar and lift a 100 lb weight 1 ft. Take the same weight an lift distance and use a 14 ft bar. The longer bar will use less energy than the shorter, the same way the Spey will throw farther with less energy all day and all night.


Charlie

You are very wrong. Sorry. Please see the recent thread on long rod leverage. Its filled with comments from engineers and physicist and everyone who knows what they're talking about all confirming that longer rod equals less leverage. I don't want to be rude, but you are wrong.

 

[bugslinger]

nick k , we must agree to disagree, I too am an Engineer, but thats not the point. There were people who said the sound barrier cant be broken ,the speed of light cant be surpassed,man came from apes,and long rods are harder to cast than shorter ones. I have been fishing with a Spey since my Grandfather taught me as as wee Lad. Let the nay sayers and slide rule data crunchers disagree, I could produce data to the contrary, but this is a fly fishing forum where were suppose to share knowledge and have some fun.




Charlie

 

[Rip Tide]

Fly rods are required to perform 2 different functions, casting a line and fighting fish.
Unfortunately what make for a good casting rod also makes it a less than desirable fish fighting tool.
When wading/ on you feet you can compensate for this, but in a boat you're stuck in position. This is where the leverage of a shorter becomes more important especially when targeting larger fish.
You're not doing yourself any favors by fishing a long rod in a boat.

 

[kylebass91]

For bigger stuff like that I got an 8' 9/10 weight with a 10 weight line, I can cast the rod a fair distance but Its from a boat or shore not from a tube. I like the slightly shorter rod, but work on your haul/double haul to really get them out there.

 

[Guest1]

I gave you a like becuase I think you were sincere, midguided but none the less sincere. On a two handed rod a.k.a. the Spey the fulcrum is the distance between top and bottom hand usualy an inch or so in front of the reel . The rod is the lever and the line/leader/fly is the weight. This is a general balance point all depending on rod leangth,cast,and grip location,grip length, and reel weight. The longer rod will always generate more wind resistancce because their is more surface area. Instead of going on with a long winded answer, use this test. Take a 8 ft bar and lift a 100 lb weight 1 ft. Take the same weight an lift distance and use a 14 ft bar. The longer bar will use less energy than the shorter, the same way the Spey will throw farther with less energy all day and all night.


Charlie

OK, I think you have a couple things here I need clearing up with. You are saying you have more leverage against a fish with a longer rod? And you are saying that it's easier to cast a longer rod than a shorter one?

I'm hoping I just misunderstood you, but in the event I didn't, if you take a 100 pound weight at the end of 8 or 14 foot rod you are not getting it off the ground with either one. You have a much better chance of doing it with 8 foot rod if you are built like Schwarzeneggar because you can get your hands spread far enought to sort of lever it. If you use them as a lever from the fish's side of it, you are better off with the 14 footer.

You_______________________Fish
..........^
.......Fulcrum
Swap you and fish for you and 100 lbs. Where would you want to be if you were lifting a 100lb object? Where the you is or the fish is?

Now the "usually an inch in front of the reel" spey thing. That inch thing is with Scandi casting only, which I don't like. Even then I think it' a tad closer than most do. My hand goes as far away from the reel as I have grip for. And longer rods are not easier to cast. What they do easier is cast far. That has to do with tip/line speed. Two handers are easier on you than single handers, but it's the style casting not the rod length that makes it easier on you. Try a 14'er all day and then try a 20'er and see how you feel about it then. Balance point has nothing to do with casting either. In a two hander the only reason balance is important at all is for when the line is out swinging so you don't have to fight to keep the rod tip out of the water the whole time you are fishing not casting. I can take the reel off and put it in my pocket and not effect the cast.

One last question, do you know of a company that makes a 10' 10wt. single hand rod? I don't recall ever seeing one.

 

[chuck s]

"a 10' 10wt. single hand rod?" Now that would be a beast!!! To add a bit more to this fine discussion, consider. I used three identical rod models for a purpose for the minute you start comparing spey to single, to switch, etc - all goes out the window. Even with single hand rods I'd group them into at least four groups, full flex, mid flex, tip flex and and near no flex!
Test rods in the same grouping since flex, in effect, shortens the rod. One of my favorite big game rods is the nine ft BL5 a Winston offering with loads of tip flex giving it the characteristics of my old 8'9 RPLX, a much stiffer rod.

 

[Guest1]

Welcome to the forum, Dan and I agree many times on many things, just not on this one. Here's my two cents; The longer the rod ,the more leverage you have to cast,fight fish and roll cast back to the spot where the fish missed your fly or you were sleeping. A longer rod is always easier to cast than a shorter one of equal quality and speed. It takes less energy to do so,and that means you can fish longer. Musky are elusive ambush predators that take alot of casting to catch. My advice is to err on the long side, 10 ft. is not a long rod. If I were after Musky the Spey would be my rod of choice as close to the water you are, in a float tube,pontoon etc.


Charlie

Yah, Charlie said he would go with a 10'er for Musky. By the way, I would love to see you roll cast that Musky fly. Actually I missed the word spey in that suggestion. I would like to see a spey cast from a float tube as well.