Need advice on creek smallmouth rig.

[madison320]

I've been fly fishing for trout for awhile but I want to get into warmwater creek fishing. The local creek is about 100-200 cfs, fairly shallow, rocky and clear with an average current speed. There's largemouth, smallmouth and rock bass. I recently went with a guide and decided from that trip that about the heaviest rod I want to deal with is an 8' 6" 5wt. I don't mind catching smaller fish. My question is how should I rig my 8'6" 5wt? How long should the leader be and what X? What kind of streamer? What size? Should I use a beadhead?

Thanks!

 

[denver1911]

Let conditions dictate. How will you know what comditions dictate what? Of course reading and studying helps, but fishing helps much more.

Start with a short-ish leader. Smallmouth generally aren't leader/line shy. 6' is a good start.

4' of 20 lb and 2' of 2x or 3x.

#2 wooly bugger w/o bead sounds about right for the description you give.

Bigger/heavier flies = bigger tippet.

Good luck.

 

[fshng2]

Dave's Red Fox Squirrel Hair Nymph

Also check out this link from one of the truely great bass fly fisherman and fly designers Dave Whitlock.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...UCLIQFggzMAI&usg=AOvVaw1xRqiCFLWU2JnhVImaaE4s

 

[madison320]

#2 wooly bugger w/o bead sounds about right for the description you give.

Bigger/heavier flies = bigger tippet.

Good luck.

That sounds about what I was expecting except for not having a beadhead. Do you fish wooly buggers weightless or with wire wrapping?

Is there a certain water depth were you'd switch to a beadhead?

Thanks!

---------- Post added at 03:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:50 PM ----------

Dave's Red Fox Squirrel Hair Nymph

Also check out this link from one of the truely great bass fly fisherman and fly designers Dave Whitlock.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...UCLIQFggzMAI&usg=AOvVaw1xRqiCFLWU2JnhVImaaE4s

Interesting, I never would've thought of using a nymph for smallies.

 

[bigjim5589]

It's probable that what you've used for trout will work as well for those bass unless you've been using tiny flies & very fine tippets. I like a leader & tippet to be about my rod length, so, somewhere between 7 1/2' to 9' and adjust the tippet length & breaking strength or stiffness to the flies. As denver1911 indicated, heavier flies, need heavier tippet and bass aren't often line shy.

I stopped even considering "X" ratings for my tippets many years ago since most of the fishing I do is for bass or salt species, and just go with bulk line for tippet & anywhere from 6 lb test up to 30 lb depending on what rod I'm using & my target species.

Your rod will limit the size of the flies, so stay within the limitations of the rod & your casting abilities & you should be fine.

As far as the flies, bass will eat most anything & there are many very good fly patterns today. I like to try flies of a size & pattern that may imitate something in the waters I'm fishing, but that often will be a generic pattern. For example, if there are Shad, then a baitfish pattern with olive or grey backs & whitish belly will usually get bit. same with crayfish, or any other possible forage. They don't usually need to be precise imitations, and size or profile may be more important than the actual pattern

Also, don't over look flies that may not be specifically for bass. I like Intruders in streams for SM bass, and LM bass will eat them too. Same with MOAL flies. I tie them without the trailing hook used for Steelhead, and just go with the single hook, but tube fly versions will work also. IMO, bass tend not to strike short the way the trouts will and those trailer hooks tend to result in gut hooked bass. It's just a matter of adopting the pattern to a different hook configuration.

If you select some flies to cover the forage & the water column, that's a great place to get started, then add whatever you feel is a better choice as you get to know the waters better. That may mean you'll end up using crayfish pattern more than baitfish, just as an example, but the opposite could be true. In some small waters I've fished, insects made up more of the diet than anything else. Go with what the fish & the waters tell you. You can learn a great deal from the stomach contents of most any fish too.

I use many flies, styles & patterns for bass, and always have some "natural" colors or patterns, some light & dark, and some attractor patterns. They all have their place. :wink:

 

[nevadanstig]

We have some bass in the rivers around here, I just use my normal trout gear. 9' 5wt, floating line, furled leader, 3x tippet. I usually toss around buggers or clousers. Bass are pretty darn aggressive, theyll hit a lot more that you put in their face than trout IMO.

Sent from my SM-T237P using Tapatalk

 

[madison320]

Bass are pretty darn aggressive, theyll hit a lot more that you put in their face than trout IMO.

Yeah, I keep hearing that but for whatever reason I can catch wild trout a lot easier than bass, even bluegill sometimes!

 

[al_a]

Bass aren't line shy, but they ARE human shy. What I mean is, in clear water like in most small smallmouth streams, you simply cannot approach them closely like you often can trout. I've fished a lot of trout water where, as long as I'm fishing in fairly fast, riffled-surface water, I can walk quietly right up to where I'm fishing with practically no fly line off the end of the rod, and do well. That ain't happening with smallmouth. Where I struggle in fly fishing for smallies is that they require LONG casts in clear water. Fly doesn't much matter, leader doesn't much matter, but YOU matter.

Other thing to consider is time of year. You can catch trout in more or less the same places all year long as long as the water doesn't freeze. Smallmouth MOVE in the fall and winter, and congregate in wintering pools, deeper, slow water with good cover. Once the water temps drop into the low 50s and high 40s, they become far less aggressive, and you have to fish fairly deep and slow for them, another thing that doesn't lend itself as well to fly fishing. And in many parts of the country, they may move completely out of the smaller creeks and into the larger river or lake the creek runs into in order to find good wintering water. This happens in mid-autumn, about now, in the middle latitudes of the country.

 

[denver1911]

Al_a makes some great points. Smallmouth are often found in slower moving and less-broken water than trout. This makes it harder to sneak up on them.

If you are in small water as described, and the fish are there, hungry, and undisturbed, unweighted would be my choice.

 

[madison320]

Bass aren't line shy, but they ARE human shy. What I mean is, in clear water like in most small smallmouth streams, you simply cannot approach them closely like you often can trout. I've fished a lot of trout water where, as long as I'm fishing in fairly fast, riffled-surface water, I can walk quietly right up to where I'm fishing with practically no fly line off the end of the rod, and do well. That ain't happening with smallmouth. Where I struggle in fly fishing for smallies is that they require LONG casts in clear water. Fly doesn't much matter, leader doesn't much matter, but YOU matter.

That's a really good point. I went thru a river smallmouth phase for about 7 years and I was obsessed with making long casts with light baits with my spinning rod (4# fireline was the ticket). My latest phase has been fly fishing for trout and like you said with the broken water almost all my casts are short. I've actually thought to myself recently that maybe those long casts for smallies was a mistake and overkill. But I think you're right, it's probably the water situation.

But does that mean fly fishing for smallies in clear creeks is not advisable? Is spinning the only way I'm going to catch them?

 

[bigjim5589]

But does that mean fly fishing for smallies in clear creeks is not advisable? Is spinning the only way I'm going to catch them?

The method is just our choice, and may have nothing to do with advisable or practical. All tackle has limitations, and as we push the limits, skills developed become more important than the method used. I personally enjoy fly fishing for bass the most, but yes there are times when other gear is a better choice, and I will fish with other tackle. Sometimes because fly gear is not a good choice for the situation or conditions & sometimes because I simply want to fish with lures. Catching fish is only a small part in my use of any tackle.

IMO, dealing with clear water has nothing to do with the method, and more to do with how we utilize the method. If you lack the confidence to tackle clear water with fly gear, then you do have other options. However, if you wish to use the fly gear, the only way to become proficient is get on the water & figure it out. It will take time.

In my fly fishing journey, I figured out a long time ago that learning was more important to me than catching and as my skills improved & I got better with the gear, my catch rate improved.

You need to decide what is important to you.

 

[al_a]

I'd just say it's tougher in clear water, especially if it's small, clear creeks where your backcast room is limited. Some of the creeks I fish, I'd never be able to make a classic fly cast of more than 25 feet, because I would never have enough clear space behind me for the backcast. On those creeks, if using fly tackle, I have to be VERY stealthy, keep low to the water, and basically stalk those fish as if you were hunting wary game, wading upstream, hiding behind bushes, casting into a pool before I've completely gone up the riffle at the foot of it, using a lot of roll casts. And wearing clothing, especially on my upper body, that is either camouflage or at least a broken, light color, and never making sudden moves other than what is necessary to cast. In those conditions, probably spinning tackle is a lot easier, but fly fishing is doable.

 

[hokiehunter07]

4X and sneaky pete's. Smallies love top water. Throw clousers, buggers, any minnow imitation. Anything that looks like a crawdad or hellgramite also. My personaly favorite are hand carved balsa or corks poppers.

 

[pleasantvalley]

Poppers and streamers man. Bumblebee poppers always do well for me, buggers, shiny streamers, small mice. Topwater is a good choice depending on the day. Sometimes I’ll rig a small streamer, with a larger streamer about 18” behind.

 

[Red Owl]

In the Smokies I was after trout and using a "Yellow Hammer" wet fly/nymph (local pattern) and a smallie came out of no where, hammered it and took off for parts unknown. If you read all the books, etc. IMHO the flies are too large, a lot of smallmouth bass are 12-14" and these monster flies used for trophy largemouth are too large in many instances. Still, the mouth is larger than a trout so I feel you need a hook gap larger than what works for trout. Something about the size of the last joint on your pinky finger is about right.
There are a lot of marginal trout water that fish and game depts stock with trout that will die off in the summer, I've always felt those areas would be better served with enhancing the smallmouth opportunities. Noble fish.